Transcripts For DW Conflict Zone 20240714

A former Justice Minister with moldova now a by word for corruption is he ashamed of peace partys record in the government. Which i will tell you welcome to conflict zone. And place to be here discussion your party lost the battle to hold on to power but you deserve to lose the way didnt you because democracy was increasingly undermined under your watch and there was massive corruption which you did very little about so you deserve to go didnt you really it depends how to look at that and i would disagree with something related to the corruption spot yes indeed i can say that we have lots of critics related to democracy tendencies all over the do to democratic parties and and to to while undertaking the mandate in the governance in 2016. In truth a lot in social and economical performances being for example the seller is increased in the public area by 70 percent there are at salaries than the pensions are the year last year you were sure in the world that the Democratic Party was implementing european standards at home thats what you said in september yes here europe was telling a completely different story about the European Parliament condemned what it called an increasing backsliding on core values related to democratic standards so much for your european standards it also added that moldova was trapped by oligarchic interests with economic and political power in the hands of a small group of people exerting their influence on parliament the government Political Parties state of ministration police and judiciary in other words your assurances about european standards were worthless well no i would disagree with that because similar opinion this was a political statement and we can have different opinions to be displayed because it has been done by a Political Group it was based on findings that they discovered when they came here any of the talks that theyve been having a list again did you see did he show any on evaluation or some some reports regarding to that because they havent seen and everything that could be measured has been measured with the significant progresses bads that i want the view of the e. U. The council of europe Freedom House the u. N. The u. S. State department Amnesty International oh i see Bertelsmann Foundation there was remarkable unanimity about the state of democracy and corruption in this country from them wasnt but let me please explain otherwise if you want to hear me because while i would divide those cine shoes i would divide the corruption and i would divide the democracy why because while talking about corruption since 2006. They were the most progress is that ever have been done in republic of lower in fighting corruption was the 1st cases where ministers the Prime Ministers and other very high officials have been prosecuted the u. S. Court is a lect of justice you know if selective just while one were talking about the ministers that were in our government i wouldnt say that it was selective because selective means then when you are prosecuting all everyone except your once but it wasnt the case and you also said you undermined the processes the judicial processes thats also a little view of the United States well it was some new shoes well but this is not related more than some issues is that the target or no i again there are difficulties in judicial system of course there are but while talking to corruption this was the most fighting period in republic of moldova thats why according to the Public Perception corruption was the 1st one ranked problem in 2016 and it became the 5th one in 2019 due to the efforts that have been put fighting that in march washingtons human rights report effectively highlight it with all the other International Organizations have been saying they highlighted torture in your prisons arrest and detention by the authorities restrictions on freedom of the media and serious attacks on people who stood in the way of your party especially lawyers as one un special rapporteur reported lawyers faced politically motivated criminal charges or were threatened each time they defended people with opinions dissenting from the author or it is you were just dismissed and you signed off on this you were quite happy that that should happen that these lawyers should be thrown. Well you know is very fashionable to start victimizing yourself under start doing politics while you have some criminal cases on your side. Because for example to do with the charges that well you have this exactly this exactly cases youre referring to 2 cases one of them is related to one attorney a woman that has been committed a crime murder in 191999 the other one is another lawyer they were just referring to 2 cases in situ cases they refer referring to a pattern of behavior i know exactly the cases that theyre reference to and the other cases this case of a lawyer reading koch who has committed bribes and traffic of influence before starting being the lawyer of one of the people that pretending to be politician so they say were talking about 2 cases all of them committed crimes before starting coming into the public area we have a lot of Different Cases to go through mr why was the International Community so keen on seeing you go on june the 14th the United States basically said it was pleased to see you go the state Department Spokesman said the u. S. Welcomes the Democratic Partys announcement that its withdrawing from government in favor of Prime Minister Prime Minister my son do and the coalition formed by the democratically elected parliament the fact is washington couldnt wait to get rid of you could and more importantly it wasnt going to lift a finger to save you was it well no one should place any fingers to save anyone politicians or the us it was a Coalition Created that were accepted at the final stage and we transfer the powers of the governors it is could the people who have they come paris of how the car country can be governed by ones and by the others is good for us as well give up willingly you gave up the rules of National Pressure you even got the Constitutional Court to strip the president of his powers so that new elections could be called for september if were talking about that its good to have to see how the. Uncivil since the 7th of june and youll see that we gave the power in a peaceful manner and we give it willingly and we maybe as announcements for days before transferring the power after trying to get the Constitutional Court to step in and call elections thats what you tried to do which isnt tied to step in any Constitutional Court or stuff like that because on monday already which was the 3rd day of that announcement of the Constitutional Court will ready to the decision to transfer the power and then on tuesday which was the 4th day or we already announced that we are willing to stay to discuss how to transfer power peacefully who trustingly rulings from your Constitutional Court these days after you stuffed it with your own people who trusts the Constitutional Court here most of the people trust equalization of court doesnt trust only the ones who doesnt dont like the decisions of that you know report last year the Bertelsmann Foundation said that the current Justice System including the general Prosecutors Office the Supreme Court the Supreme Judicial Council and the National Corruption center were largely subordinated to the oligarchy plot look who just happens to be chairman of your Democratic Party although you tell me hes just a down hes Just Announced that hes leave he Just Announced the hurt but thats not so great record you were Justice Minister and you are loud that kind of state can i take place i think i didnt tell you i took the management of the minister of justice in 2015 and the end of the year and at that time already they were the statements that the state is captured by the way 2nd at that time already all the support of European Union in that area has been refused or suspended. I had the conditionalities to approve lots of the reforms in a very short time and i managed to do that in 2 years or even less and it was accepted and recognized now we we have a legislation in the judiciary which is like a piece of the art we have a class of a lot of things to implement to work on training the new judges which have been renewed we have almost 5045 percent of the judge the new ones which came into the system but still we need to train them we need to create uniform practices in that respect and it cannot be done through the night it will take time down was to stop this is a good ordination to the chairman of your party it was without burning has been found i would deserve using actual attention i would disagree to you to make the assessments and the conclusions based on only on the statements of the parties that were on their position at the time its not because theyre treating their own findings and its because today i International Organisation is today saying the same thing today at 2 weeks time since the government has been transferred to the other parties i can say the judiciary is subordinated to the new government why very simple because it was sufficient the new Prime Minister to make some statements and of course have been changing their decisions immediately through the night if this is subordination then you have to accept that there subordinated to the new government as well they want to you know we have heard that it depends how objective signs that the leaders are demanding a beattie and of the judiciary the all thora teeth did not mean its near has been inforced by your policy of using corrupt practices business clan ties and intimidation this was reported because it was miliband is not say east on the phone well they got it wrong lets lets turn back they let it roll its in discuss that i misunderstood lets lets discuss that i just stated that the new government. And it would be control of the judicial reign said its not so if they just made a statement but if they make the statement that you have to revise your decision and to decide like that and the court immediately is doing that what does it means if not subordination in your understanding. In more than 0 although you also watch and you watch mr chip with the politicize ation of the judiciary was an instrument which was often used against mr plow looks rivals that was the conclusion of the Bertelsmann Foundation i went from 271822800 thanks to your efforts means a lot of Economic Forum ranked moldova 100 and 32nd the other 137 countries as regards the independence of the judiciary are you proud of that record of course your mind no im not but i what they can say the standard what they can tell you is that when we took the judiciary i took the judiciary the trust of the people in the jury sure was 7 percent and when i left my position of the ministry of justice was 25 percent yes this is not sufficient but in 2 years time to increase is 3 times its something but it will turn the seat on little nancy hearty chairman nuanced notes who they gave their loyalty stronger thats what they said and thats wrong they misunderstood it then they just got it wrong they made up the story is that right is this what youre saying no im not saying that im just saying that i think its some just saying that we had a very poor situation which is not very fantastic today but it has registered a very good improvements in that respect you you deny any wrongdoing by the merits and im not im not saying that its not correct just to state the wrongdoings but it is correct to see how the developments and evolution of all of that what about mr plant look you are probably gandhian can do certain 2016 that he was made to the most hated man in the country because people need to find somebody to blame thats it hes blameless now we know one is angel in my liver. Iran the new governments in even the World Governments even democratic parties the members were not the angles as no one is angel one likely think we are committing mistake was he a crook is he a crook of course its not a crook. Of course its not a crook its a person that has ensured a good and efficient governance from the point of view of the social infrastructure problems yes maybe the party didnt focus too much on democracy and maybe the party didnt focus too much on implementing some reforms in like judiciary for example but what these done improving the life of the people is done a lot and even more than many other governments putting together for the last previous 20 years when the new government came in your party chief that was the plan if lead the country along with a Business Partner iran saw he was looking perhaps for friends outside but. He didnt find any duty to find any friends again i would disagree with his statement but because he left the country only after transferring peacefully the governance studio to the opposition or to down to the settlement i dont know lets ask him im not gonna said that neither the interior ministry nor the border penas have a record of him leaving the main is the the new minister of internal affairs made 3 different statements in just one week and all of them conflict in between each other so i would i wouldnt pay too much price to the statements that he made i understand that hes a new minister but hes committing too much mistaken me and is misleading the Public Opinion in that respect probably isnt coming back you see its over everyones had enough of your part lets ask him lets ask him because he is your understanding hes going well my understanding is that hes coming back as long or when the security arrangements will be done including kurian although you refused for a week to give up your offices didnt you say we officials you appointed refused to obey the new Prime Ministers we on the 3rd day we already announced for the accounting since 8 of june were already announced that we are willing to have this cash is to transfer the governance so i would disagree for a run and you put your supporters into the square and there could have been massive violence 1st a chance for should be peaceful and now should be should be peaceful but it might not be and it was peaceful and try to get into the office you wouldnt let me i mean we know they didnt try even to get into the office some of them did now none where we said none of them didnt try to get into the offices they just made some declarations yes different its good probably to pay one week staying here in those very hard times to turn the stand the situation no one tried and we made all the announcements and invitations to them to Start Talking and this was. Its almost over your time is over what means the governess is over it was over on 8 of june yes its over the new government has promised theyll be no revenge im sure you really are already there they are already sure youre relieved to hear that made any because this is helping them with their inquiries im sorry previous corruption is because they harassments public pressure and revenge already is there many of the people already dismissed the professional people which has no links with the parties have been already dismissed from their positions but if you are there really arent this is europe saying now us saying it was they reserve dues of people that i think hearing on different reforms and different projects to manage and funding by our Development Partners their professional snow dr nyce like that very thing you did dont they are going to put a spotlight has improved lets put on the spotlight its going to be rather uncomfortable for us and no its not at all uncomfortable because i see many of the critics they have been done there already coming to an out opinion because they they criticise not knowing or not going into the details of different projects already and reforms but well see what they will do and its better to judge about them and us in comparison and we will see one of the salaries will rise well see how the Infrastructure Projects will go on how the collections of the budget will be done and then we will see who is less corrupted and who is better managing and governing the country the challenge for this government is to dismantle your system of control over the courts and the criminal investigation bodies isnt it which you controlled basically and which were loyal to your Party Chairman from 26 dean. Transparency International Reported your main aim was to concentrate your partys power within the executive criminal investigation bodies and courts it said are used by this party as instruments to intimidate and make loyal political rivals both at central and local level. So this practice is obvious particularly in relation to local councillors and theres its set that up blackmailed and compelled to join the ruling party that was you im very happy that you are making reference to this specific report because usually takes time to to prepare a report and then to make it public and so as it is dated 2016 it means exactly that there are all the data is collected in the previous periods so i will in that case i would just will restate that we took the governance in 2016 only and of course we recognise it was a loss of the problem and this is 27 serious reforms this is our only 17 report not 20 as you mentioned 16 i said from 2016 they said your main aim was this was a report 2 years ago when you were already in the Justice Department and here its come to the flash mailing in compelling mayors and local councillors to join the ruling party again your plan no no fishel claims in that respect have been done or or submitted by anyone is just oppositions statement and speculations nothing has been confirmed in time do you think do you think the rest of the world is really that stupid no nothing told work out whats going on you know what was happened just you were just something just seen were there turn to stand the situations better to have a more indepth look at the everything and having at least while writing this reports at least 2 opinions a placed well we have already quoted from the Us State Department from the European Parliament from trance. Transparency international from the west sea. One of the things that came into your area of control was the prisons. Why did you allow a system of prison hierarchy of convict hierarchy why did you why did the guards collude with the prisoners to control the system inside the prison why well actually this is a legacy which we are a traitor fighting to thinks and if you take this do much when you are the way they did a lot of things today does really yes we did a lot to improve the conditions in imprisonments and now we have only 2 prisons that are in the very worst conditions the other ones the place where succeeded to repair and not to be the you know in the poorest conditions that could be 1st the 2nd we succeeded to create a system that cares the people in the terms of the health the medicine treatments and which is absolutely different that it really is a council of europe reported last year that one jail soroka prison though doctor had visited in over a year this was last year no doctor had been there over a year they had for medical orders orderless for 800 people you think thats satisfactory you know of course its not so its very you know you watch that never fortunate already not on my watch unless this is a report last year 28 my last didnt you know last time i didnt i wasnt the minister of justice you know in 2017 yes we were but they were already admitted that time has been transferred to another political person and a technocrat since 201717 generally in the position of the minister of justice have been appointed only technocrats the people with very reliable and very trustful in the Public Society and International Community one of them is an expert to you nothing than a transition and the one of the International Community you read the reports you see i dont trust anything would be there any shares i did your part its been more than issue lets talk lets. State corrections lets talk about economical performance and social performances and lets talk about those reports because we focused on those area and there are huge progresses in that respect of course their most criticized areas for initially was a serious economists in jail who were living in conditions which were said to be bordering on the luck shuras they had divan beds kitchenettes fridges aquariums carpets on the floor widescreen television so somebody in your economy was doing well it wasnt necessarily the poorest section but these people in jail you think that providing a sort of club for senior convicts and criminals theyre not going to as part of the military Justice System and as you said earlier last year european up to european standards when you think in europe you have reasons like this not at all and lets go to the prisons to see in turn the stand that i as a told you it is a poor situation in the prisons but it is much better than it was 3 years ago and while circling about the people saying theres a report last year by the council yes but lets see the report 3 years ago and youll see a more poor situation then the last year report and year by year the reports are became better and better nothing can be changed our number of projects was a good number of the rig none of them of time when you were in government now is why the point i made at the beginning is you deserve to be a good report that includes reports in the economical area in the social area. And none of the questions have been received so far from the area i understand it more plesent is to discuss everything that could be criticised and we agree with you that those are the areas that have been performed poorly and could be better could be done better and theyre doing better but not in there with the speed that we would like it to do because its not easy to do it is very complicated to do a lot of fear for have been put in the respect lots of the investments have been public investments have been put into that area as well but still we have a lot of things to do until everything will be not perfect that acceptable and youre going to work with this new government even though youve already said its illegal you consider the coalition to be illegal we said that it was illegal even at the moment when we transferred the governance but we said we work with it but we said trying to work whether we said yes because we said at the time you have to fix one deadlock constitutional one. And it has been fixed and immediately as they goes to Chanelle Court has written reversed some of his decisions we said ok now we can enter into the parliament now we can manage position real opposition and constructive all rights for the mitchell with ari thanks very much for being here thank you. Thank. You. So klinsmann to be introduced. The people making it possible to go to africa. Fantastic right. As they set out to safe environments. And learn from one another. And Work Together for the church food. Safety in south. Africa w. Im not laughing at them well i guess sometimes i am but i stand up and whimper that we should have been thinks deep into their german culture of looking at the stereotypes of quechua indians think the future of the country that i know a long time. Pm lead it seems ridiculous drama day out to you its all about a new i might show join me for me could have been fun beat up your. Post. Its been 50 years since the moon landing. She was the 1st man to walk on the moon. As a small boy she dreamed of the stars. As a pilot she flew anything no matter how to introduce. A church or go to the pole. As an astronaut she took part in the greatest adventure in history. She wrote a legend or simply a human being who was neil. Was his destiny starts july 20th on t. W. Play. This is the abuse life for berlin can they patch up their differences van down by trade wars and a lack of consensus on just how to tackle Global Warming she 20 leaders arrive in japan for a high stakes meeting Live Team Coverage from osaka also coming up. The hearts of the tunisian capitalism wrong fight twin suicide attacks leaving one dead and several injured i witness to say Security Forces were the target was