A newspaper in india last november two zero is now as secure as any country in the world is not true is that when i think compared to two thousand and fifteen and sixteen i can repeat the same statement. As secure as any country in the world there are five areas listed as no go areas by the state Department Us State Department no but when they said this because they compared with two thousand fifteen when we had the first terrorist attack attack and then on the night two thousand sixteen today i think that our forces are better trained well equipped but not as secure is any country in the world as most of the countries yes when you read what the state department has to say give you an example western mountains in chandon National Park terrorist groups continue to operate in the mountains of western tunisia juber ok for castle. The algerian border terrorist groups continue to operate in these areas city busied in central tunisia terrorist groups continue to operate in this area that doesnt sound very stable exaggerated frankly these are the first days apart when theres no longer soaking up but let me tell you these are the fringes i mean on the border of tunisia these are you have talking about mountains and these mountains of course we never said that about territory in tunisia yet but these are. These are very small groups they are very well tackled by our forces we know them well they are moving and we are following that but i put it to you that your vices dangerously misleading limits not people believe the state department with the biggest most sophisticated Intelligence Service in the world or the ministry of a country that wants to revive its tourist and military to wage this statement is not saying that we need is not secure and i just sang places not to go again not go there yeah but do not go in you want to also have places where you are not to go where work will work very very well not know terrorist threats well all over the world yes but theyre not no good because musically there is no territory in tunisia held by terrorists there is no no no what they said no terrorist groups continue to operate in this area three three four five areas yes but is it that they are not Holding Territories they are a few groups they are acting we are following them but they have been this threat we are aware of it but they are not targeting we are not thin like other middle Eastern Countries where the terrorists were able to hold the police tunisia is completely and their control of the state mrs you know your own interior minister gave a vivid picture of the hugely extensive terrorist operating in your country he said in twenty seventeen a broken up forty network sending terrorist to conflict zones six Terror Networks more than one hundred twenty terrorist recruiting cell. How many hundreds of others are there that you dont know about well what you havent got this is a hugely Extensive Network of terrorists operating in york yes but these are from the interior of these. These these shows first of all that our forces now they know about the sense they were working to give us these cells they dont know about the next one yeah but they know that but lets be very happy that to tell you that the last two years two neither was immune of any terrorist threat this is the belief that of our Security Forces. You have several thousand units who went off to fight with isis and reputed to be the largest per capita number from any country some of them have been filtering back home we dont know how good your border controls are in twenty fifteen report by Transparency International said your security and Customs Officials suffered from a lack of transparency and scrutiny so we dont know how good your border controls are these people coming back in but first you cant be complacent frankly speaking first of all speaking about several thousands i think here you are exaggerating these are reports by the media these are reports they said several several thousand dollars i didnt say seven i said several several thousands nobody is able to count them to say that there are trees these are people working i mean fighting in the hot spots nobody was they are coming and they have suffered and you have no property Radicalization Program in your country no property Radicalization Program according to the tunisian form for economic and social rights theres not theres not a program there is no problem of what radicalization of course there is of course there is there is a comprehensive policy regarding trying to direct radicalize or these young people its a reason that they are they say whatever they like what theyre telling you on behalf of the government that there is a National Comprehensive program that link with the working with women with the in education in social affairs and its involvement of the department of them maybe but a lot of these people who come back are sitting under house arrest but even if you are going to do with them of course if they can sell it and thats not the radicalisation not even if they can in any in any democratic country were which is the respecting the rule of law these people when they come back of course they are held and theyre waited where the police and if found guilty big. To the court and of course they will be prosecuted because it lets talk about your claim to be respecting the law because your governments commitment to human rights and democracy has also been contested the International Crisis group warned last month that you newseum was drifting back towards its old or thora tarion reflexes something im sure you will deny but Freedom House reported that your failure to consolidate democracy meant a sharp decline in this years Freedom Index reflecting a pattern of war thora tarion behavior and the president subsidy but Freedom House rated treaties are the first. And the meta reason Freedom House to easy is the most free country and that its not living up to the hopes it says with the latest downgrade theyve downgraded it is number one they downgrade let you take the media that is about one but they have downgraded our lead to bear latest downgrade tunisia has come dangerously close to losing its status as the only free glees to merchandize arab states these kind of reports this is not reported by everybody these frankly speaking i dont know on which most of the human rights organizations western youre right organization they do not have a good picture and i want to go into some of these they do not have a good picture of your progress towards a democratic swill let me tell you what we are doing in the program well explain to you that we are but i just want to make the point that it didnt inspire confidence last september that three of the new faces in the government had served as ministers during the dictatorship of ben ali and if they are able and capable to do to handle their departments i mean that does not mean they have not got prosecuted by the by the justice they were never said that these people you know the committed any crime anyone of the old system what signal does that send what depends what the purpose of the revolution for if you didnt bring back all these old faces yes all traitors but the are these people the they didnt serve i mean i think tater you. They were not. Implicated you know involved in any of the communities there is no reason not to or frankly speaking you know the democratic system there is no reason to recruit able people to run the country when that and the country is going through thought so we are losing as a test of our genoa did you really imagine tunisia and staged a revolution in order to see these old and discredited faces brought back according to the Carnegie Endowment bensalem. Bensalem was widely seen as an apologist of the old regime for denying its Human Rights Violations also controversially or finance minister really the child girl who was named in the Carnegie Endowment posting as being close to the ben ali family and these really the people you want there will frankly a lot about that every battle engine is definitely not that many people but these people going to think about what signal that were sending will theres no signal we didnt choose them because they belong to the old regime i mean the chief of the government the Prime Minister choose them because he thought that these people are the right people for the this time to run the department of education and the finest it is not you want to collect you want to correct the evils of the past and you bring back the people who were sent directly associated with the eagles there but that these people they were not involved in security they. Could have thirty people or they were not in world in touch so these people are a sort of Civil Servant the ministers they were ministers they have these two people they were running technical departments they were not related to politics. Month to newsier saw widespread social protests in january there was widespread concern among western human Rights Groups the way your government handled them even the uns High Commission in the house right how our government handled this that i yes the leader in the u. S. High commission. For human rights heres a ticket or li exercised by the many hundreds of people you arrested and felt the need to remind you that all those detained should have full respect for their rights those concerns were justified wouldnt let me first tell you of the protest in their democracy its a healthy sign. Our founders larry about the way let it lay thing about he way you handle us through always know how fine to protest let me tell you openly and the directly in that our forces handed these protests with a lot of professionalism there was no single casualties these that are were running tours that are looters but no single country if in any democracy in the world it can happen some or some accident but here sitting over there at these point accidents on january the thirty first Human Rights Watch accused your police of beating up some of the people detained and denying their right to a lawyer under two new zealand law thats a direct violation of your own laws. No im not aware of this practice because i dont know from where youre reading this to new zealand legal human right yes visited twenty three suspects yes in the morning or gear prison on january the seventeenth they reported that most of them had marks consistent with beatings on their bodies systems allegations of mistreatment mistreatment of police see a deliberate policy introducing today i cant tell you know if there are so you notice theyre out of control i know but if there are incident i cant i cant say what had presented the didnt happen but this is not what they can afford to do today but this is not a deliberate state police to get back the military is not its pretty careless then if it isnt a state policy because its going on there is no witnesses were interviewed and victims were interviewed as well according to Human Rights Watch some people were arrested simply for distributing leaflets that the government didnt like calling for soldiers there if there is. A residential commitment as a free speech yes they arrested six had people on seven hundred are unemployed and then more than seven hundred more than seven hundred people most all of them they have been freed those who were involved in looting vandalism they went to the court and they have been persecuted according to the law tunisia today is a country which respects the role of the rule of law to call them all criminals and looters its the same kind of language of the old regime in the you see you all of them now frankly speaking of the i didnt say the lot of them there are some of these people expressing real social dispatcher have learned this stuff and they are in the light weight because now and governments in the last seven years of failed to meet their expectations of the nine governments this is the best let me tell you with this living in the transition and in any transition period of course you. Have stability of the government that this is this that the question is is that how is the transition going forwards or backwards its going and a lot of these reckon i would suggest that theyre going to announce that there is a National Consensus not just the government including the opposition but the democracy that is a national will to consolidate the Traditional Democratic transition in tunisia and there is no going back there is no return link and there is no there is a strong will to continue on the path of consolidating the democratic process were told of that during last years universal periodic review of the Union Human Rights council your country came under sustained criticism for aspects of its behavior the international as well as many other groups ways concern about impunity for torture and pointed out there had actually been few if any successful prosecutions of your officials for torture thats a disgraceful cannot function first of all let me these cases they are in the court and if they are in the court today in tunisia we will keep to have an independent justice so its up to the Justice Courts to decide about the supreme not in the special rapporteur on the promotion of truth justice and reparations said last year many alleged perpetrators of gross Human Rights Violations remained active in your Security Services how can that be. So special rapporteur on the promotion of truth justice and resurrection is it really as you see hes a un special rapporteur so he reported actual universal periodic review session here last year at the un Human Rights Council saying that the we continued saying that many alleged perpetrators are still employed and active in your Security Services so you dont even suspend them when theyre on a suspicion of well well i think most of them they have. Suspended i dont say that one hundred percent now there is no people suspected to be be involved in these kind of practices but the most of them were found one of the penalties for torture in your country its a balance its not such torture is forbidden by law an example of the penalties in two cases in july twenty fifteen where officials were found guilty they received a suspended sentence but thats not bad not a deterrent yes but thats not the government meeting torture yes but thats not a government of presiding over a country that doesnt deal with basic justice here but this is a very matter of justice is not a matter of within you i took it to executive minister ziad bond are you proud of this and im not of course im not so whats going to be even about is happening if we are i am sure my people and our people let their looking to these front coming sunday of trying their best to address them. Their Amnesty International put it since two thousand and eleven the overwhelming majority of credible allegations of torture and other serious violations by Security Forces have not been independently and impartially investigated is that the sort of country that you would want to preside this is not that the one thing that is not about making this stuff up mark most people have lost most most of the tunisian people most of the political families in tunisia this is not the kind of country they want they want to full fledge a democratic country we are proud of the she went we have already made we are not yet a democracy to be honest we are not yet a democracy we never pretended that we are full we finished actually our promises we are the masses we are on the path of reaching a democratic system where transparency the rule of law will be respected decision we have made you made promises you told the Human Rights Council your government last year in response to their many criticisms that you would ensure all allegations of torture impartially investigated when well let me when you going to look at reiterate that commitment of the government if my my people you know said to the in geneva this that shows that of course they are doing but when how frankly you ask me question detain the question which if you knew that you were going to ask me this i would have brought you the details for you are you a human rights minister met told Amnesty International last year it was taking time he said taking time to overcome the ben ali legacy my question to you why is it taking time if you tell your police not to torture people anymore why is it taking time for them to a daily or a well first of all we have to educate our police we have to train them so there is a lot of it we dont always have people you know that is yes but you dont torture p. D. S. Yes but not so difficult to understand it is not a matter of torture its a matter of were. Serving a democratic system they sell for now that theyre out of control youre saying you cant control i mean i dont say that they are out of control but i mean this is not the mainstream of the trees and police what you have depicted here is a wrong picture the mainstream is trying to respect the rule of law to respect the market existence but maybe in these there are some cases and never pretended that this is over its going to take time but there is a political will strong will to work towards having a full fledged democracy where the respect of human rights and the rule of law will be the rule of the government mr general what makes your promise so difficult to believe is that you are pressing ahead with a new law that would actually extend the impunity of your Security Services this is the repression of attacks against Armed Forces Bill this bill that is in Committee Stage at the moment. Human Rights Groups say if your promises to the Human Rights Committee were genuine youd scrap this extensive peeling allows the Security Services to get away from it is not yet violations this bill has not yet adopted it is under discussion it has been controversial that means that the government and those who present that be listening to the people and then im sure there will be reform and get according to the will of the people. Youre sure about that when i said so while im sure you did there are two very controversial aspects to this law and your interior minister said the other week this law was going to go through it wouldnt be withdrawn theyre not going to withdraw it criminalizing socalled denigration of police and other Security Services and. The law about secrets the proposal that anyone who discloses or publishes National Security related secrets can spend ten years in jail and well well the idea is that its now and the discussion and if there are any reforms amendment to that law there will be taken care of and they will be. Met accordingly theres a huge protest thats caused huge protests from Civil Society even the tunisian pressure from the police do think that you understand now today tunisia is a free country so there are pressure from the police the those Police Forces who would like to get more like to get away with any violation they want to practice thats the truth isnt it yeah and this law if it goes through as it is written of them i would allow that it will not get as it is as i said its at the discussion and im sure all these observation will be taken care of when the law would be out of the bureau already under attack if it is and that discussion by the parliament and that are the parliament then Political Parties so its not the government which is ironic this is your ballot youre already under attack for the law that you have passed which is the socalled administrative reconciliation law lets be clear it grant amnesty to Civil Servants who facilitated corruption under the belly regime without putting them through any Legal Process what so i let me explain to you this is this is getting away with everything doesnt it none of this is not getting weve passed this here this is already gone through let me explain to you this low because you are getting a wrong ever measurable. This is a low regarding those just Civil Servant who are working under the benign you who got the instruction the political instruction to you know so that was really the responsibility because they were ordered to do something bad what are you saying that they had no personal responsibility not only the difference no right and wrong not whether they were instrumental or not see what happens now in the administration which is a quite an important tool for guaranteeing you know the success of the transition in the Administration Today nobody is able and ready to sign anything. He wants to get you know protection the law directly contradicts what the Prime Minister said when he came to power in twenty sixteen he said our slogan today is no immunity for corruption to anyone but no to hiding behind political cover which is what theyre doing corruption crimes will not pass and then you pass this law of this which allows that negative these people they can get money in that box they didnt come after anybody they just you know they were in the lower iraqi theyre just and clementon decision so this law has been utterly rejected by the International Center for Transitional Justice as well as your own National Council of the Bar Association so popular is it this or sort of the popular that shows you although there is a debate going on in tunisia late the laws being passed yeah but the no i mean we thought that this is a way to help the administration running the daily business of a government so theres a way to help people escape their responsibility no that does not serve their party in the dictatorship if they have committed any crime this law does not protect them them from being prosecuted for any crime or corruption because this is just related to the civil civil part of the job you have to read the law it has nothing to do i mean if you have been Bar Association with the law and they came up with a completely different career because of this this also who is looking after justice them or you know that they are there but and the justice is not us who are looking after we are the executive branch and we are not the world to be justice you keep passing these laws which are so unpopular you want the the west and the i. M. F. To continue funding these anti democratic processes its not counting democratic process because it is not going to this is according to your lawyers a. S. L. s according to the International Organization of just some of our lawyers not all of them some of the contest grow they are in the right to contention but that doesnt mean that the other night we had a democracy. People waiting for milestones theyre waiting for the much delayed Constitutional Court yes which was probably theyre waiting for municipal elections i have delayed and delayed we see a Prime Minister who promises that this will be the last difficult year for the people of tunis he has hes in no position to make a promise like why not well you know now that well let me first regarding the cause of the Constitutional Court it will be there before the end of two thousand and eighteen the very was a. Prime minister pledges a promise these and it is and now there is a proposal in front of the parliament its the way you think its very in that story is late yet but this is. This is before the end of the monday to of the government of this government deal at the municipal election would be taking place all the six of me and just the Prime Minister said that that date will be respected and the election will will take will take place thats a promise is a it is not probably its a commitment all right thats just how its been good to have you on the program thank you thank you very much for being with us thank you you thank. President elect his country sink into chaos shot on the back tactician who makes deals with western leaders. The business still in power in syria only because he serves western interests the the useful tyrants the shah alex song nice to see you dont. Do nashville and i think one day this war will be considered cruel and unjust war over. And certainly all citizens of ukraine every man woman and child. Only friend their homeland if the enemy invades. No one wants russia here and dont need to nuke which is the. Middle against global news that matters. D. W. Made for mines. Three one mine is made by him better known as million. Words each challenge. For its events took place. Just setting up dates tournaments i could go on for hours like this you tell us about it you should check it out yourself the only. Place to really feel. The scars. Of the pain still tangible. Book for god. For civil war. They have survived but do they also have a future. I really understand people who say they dont want to stay here. But i also admire people who want to stay here and who decided to create something. New beginning in peace time more the people making it possible what needs to happen if tolerance and reconciliation are to stand a chance. Of darkness cities after more players starting march tenth on t w. This is d. W. News coming to you live from berlin the german chancellor condemns the killings in syria in an address to Parliament Says the Syrian Government is committing a massacre against its own people on the outskirts of damascus. Meanwhile civilians in eastern remain trapped with no letup in the Bombing Campaign on the rebel held enclave what can be done and the bloodshed will ask a german lawmaker in Foreign Relations expert. And teachers