Provoking deep concern among germans and in jewish communities so too is the recent influx of muslim immigrants a recent study by the American Jewish committee documents widespread antisemitism amongst them in one widely reported incident last year a jewish people the grandson of Holocaust Survivors quit his Berlin High School after suffering mobbing and abuse at the hands of arab and turkish classmates living in fear how antisemitic is germany thats our topic this week on quadriga and here are our guests its a pleasure to welcome kristen hell back shes a freelance journalist who recently wrote a book about Syrian Refugees in germany and the fears and prejudices they evoke she says germany needs a more inclusive memorial culture and more backbone in the fight against all forms of marginalization and were very pleased to have alan posner on the show once again hes a commentator for the daily newspaper he says jews everywhere. There are held responsible for every real or imagined injustice perpetrated by israel and finally very glad to welcome Benson Mikulski to the show hes the director of Human Rights Watch and he has experienced the problem were talking about firsthand he says antisemitism in germany is escalating and increasingly normalized and the state is responding to slove. It was indeed your son who suffered the abuse just weak a teacher asked what kind of World Religions do you guys know and what kind of houses of worship so the students. Mosque and it was my sons turn and he said. To teach us are you jewish and he said yes and that is when everything started to take started and what exactly was everything. Started with verbal abuse and bullying and then also physical effects he was beaten very badly hands of the students at this and he was also there was a mock execution and that was the point when we took him out of the school roughly three months later other students according to many newspaper reports especially arab and turkish fellow students is that correct in this case it is correct mostly turkish and also arabs and he was not the only one who was bullied kurdish black gay students and girls were also. Badly abused and the school did nothing but in his case because he was jewish it was extreme it was even worse because they didnt beat up other kids now your Opening Statement indicates that you definitely dont see this as an isolated phenomenon and yet the governments antisemitism report. More or less quoting here comes to the. Isnt that in comparison with any other time before World War Two or thereafter open antisemitism has rarely been less tolerated by the broad majority of society than today so how do you reconcile that statement with what your child experienced well firstly we germans. How to on questions about and to semitism no german would say im an semitic or i hate jews so people find their learned in rituals remember and stays in all this how to how to answer these questions so they dont appear and to semitic they are i mean the fact that the. Management of the school the mosque didnt do anything to protect my son even off the we asked him again and again shows. A pretty big resentment against jews because otherwise this person would have been a lump or the whole school or in fact also the Police People who were politically responsible for the school and we have learned from the people from other schools in play and on foot munich and so forth similar incidents because not all people because in public now people come out and talk about it. The same report that i just quoted from the German Government although it admits that attitudes are says that attitudes amongst the broad majority havent changed it does admit that there is increased antisemitic activity in the words of the report in terms of propaganda verbal and physical abuse so what exactly is going on there are we seeing a minority on the margins of society that feels increasingly empowered to act out. Big ears that. This is you know and to some it is a multifactorial thing and stupid to say that but its true their. Use of if you like traditional real anti semites who somehow may feel emboldened by the internet from social media theyre the new and to some might say call themselves anti globalists who are situated within these socalled alternative for germany this new party to never say theyre against jews but its always the east coast the capitalists and then its Goldman Sachs or whatever and somehow it all boils down to the old enemy and then there is something which is on the left and in Muslim Muslim community which is and to zionism and ever since nine hundred sixty seven you know the sixty eight as my generation they were so proud they said well we confronted our parents about what they did in the nazi past that is true up to a point but then they turned around and supported arab terrorism against israel they wrote you know the the Red Army Faction actually trained in palestinian terror camps and so on and since then its sort of a given if youre on the left that youre critical of israel theres you know theres no accept the fact that israel is the only democracy that gays lesbians and so on queers. Transgender people you know its and so this all comes together these three aspects christian however would you agree are we seeing a rise in intolerance generally and particular in. I think what has really changed is the climates in germany of public discussion of private discussions a lot of things are being set that would have been impossible ten years ago fifteen years ago and this doesnt go only for anti jewish descent but it goes for anything that is considered different that is consider any end to german somehow. We have this growing fear sentiment of everything should stay as it is germans are one nation and they look like this and they act like this whatever comes here has to be act like this and this kind of assimilation so it goes not only against jews it goes especially against muslims right now this is like if you read sometimes texts of nowadays if you replaced were muslim with jewish it gets really frightening to me you know we have this kind of stigmatization that always is the beginning of further development to more violent reactions towards minorities the stigmatization of my own minorities this is a big problem inside germany i want to talk about what effects that changing climate has and we have a short film about that in recent years berlin has actually seen something of the rebirth of jewish life but could this increasingly be perceived as a less than welcoming place we can listen now to the voices of benson michel children interviewed for a film called because youre a jew what they were showing on t w. I always felt it was better not to say im jewish. Really yeah i dont see it that way yeah oh yeah i hardly told anyone not at university either. And i dont keep quiet about it because to me that would feel like something i should be ashamed about even if thats not how it is for use as if it were secret and assist i know im jewish. My kitchen discuss their problem this is the diminish my. Has the mobbing experience that your son went through changed the childrens attitude and if you look toward the young israelis who in the past years have been coming to berlin with great alacrity would you say to those thinking about becoming better stay away no i wouldnt say better stay away but i would countries in the world that i want to resettle to germany that they havent thought about that but in your own kids have their attitudes changed. Jewish shes studying in england and england especially at universities that is a very lively and to some it isnt at the moment and my son studies in the us and theres not such a big problem with that to submit as and so they see it from their own point of view but it has changed my son my wife and me and my parents ferry much we see this country now with different us your cat parents of course being Holocaust Survivors yes alan post now lets talk about the link which you mentioned between criticism of israel and antisemitism where and when does the one begin to shade into the other and would you say given germanys crimes that german simply should refrain from criticizing israel altogether oh of course not. Look israel is a country like every other so its a country which makes mistakes maybe even commits crimes. And these can be criticised the thing is theres a theres a word in germany called israel could take one word right which means criticism of israel is not no such thing as shall we say could take all french marketing you know its only aimed at the jewish state and the state which declares itself. Jewish and if you ask where does it change over theres a very clear definition which has been accepted by the European CommitteeEuropean Community and by the German Government and this is the three ds demonization deal of the demise asian and double standards if you hold israel to a higher standard than you would another country in that. Critical security situation if you demonize israel as being some kind of apartheid state if you dida just in my eyes that are saying you know were going to boycott academics from your country which you dont do with regard to china or russia or other countries this is where israel could take becomes anti semitism obviously. Criticism of israel was much in evidence at a demonstration in december that was amongst the incidents fueling fear of a rise in antisemitism in germany lets take a look. At a demonstration that took place in berlin after Donald Trumps announcement that the u. S. Would move its embassy to jerusalem pro palestinian demonstrators chanted death to israel and burned israeli flags. Now christian helberg at those proper protest cameras did capture young men of arab origin sitting on each others shoulders and shouting and chanting a recent report from the American Jewish committee i mentioned it briefly earlier document some pretty egregious expressions of antisemitism among arab immigrants in germany so your Opening Statement says that backbone is needed but what kind of backbone is needed here in this case are arab immigrants whove come in the past couple of years part of the reason were seeing this trend to greater intolerance theres a big problem of. Among arabs or took youngsters i fully agree but we have to make an important difference between people who were born here a second or Third Generation young people will race to you who went to german schools and who should have known some political rules and some self understandings of germans not only concerning and to say what is he but what is written in the very german constitution that nobody should be a privilege to be. Neglected for his religious. For his religion or ethnic. Background so the the other story is refugees who have come here during the past two years for example from syria in syria there is a political problem with israel is until now. Occupying the syrian Golan Heights so syrians have learned all their lives that israel is the enemy and that it should be fought against so this is the narrative that these young people come to germany with and this cannot be changed easily in some Integration Course this needs time and they have other problems when they come here because the a lot of problems about integration and finding work and owning the language but what really really is a big problem for me is when people who grew up here and have went to german schools still have this entity so the semitic but come and te muslim n. T. Against everything that is considered to be. Different that is a big problem for me and there we have fate and we have a structural problem problem inside germany among germans or original by you will be will germans and people with migration background and we have to confront this by different means maybe as well by a different culture of remembrances of the holocaust i want to come in just a moment to the culture of remembrance but let me just ask you would you say that americas open door policy has in fact paved the way for this rise in antisemitism and have we in a way imported the middle east conflict right here into the heart of germany. Well the first question i would say not all the people weve seen youre demonstrating most of the people who came here a long time ago politicize the activists hamas is behind those people we see them in regular basis on anti israeli demonstrations here in berlin and i mean you know we germans have to grow up that these people are here in germany and we have to deal with this. But what we havent dealt with is. Actually in schools educating. Young. Muslims in a smart way how them and muslims and. Muslims and mostly those of german muslims to to see this i mean most of us is because they were born already in from to have so the call of some conservative. Party members here in germany to expel all foreign muslims is very shortsighted because it puts the finger only on a Certain Group which we have to deal with of course but which does not represent all the muslims in germany. Also this is the effort to educate has of course been part of an effort here in germany to come to terms to confront the crime of the holocaust there is even a special word for it forgotten heights preventing confrontation with the past and one example of that forgotten heights event to go is the culture of remembrance including a monument that remembers the holocaust just a few kilometers from here. The memorial to the murdered jews of europe it took a good twenty five years for the plans to be brought to completion. Its location in berlin is government district is perhaps the most visible indication of germanys intent to face up to its history. Unobtrusive in contrast are what are called stumbling stone they reflect the everyday horrors of the nazi era and commemorate jews who were deported murdered or driven out tens of thousands have been placed all across germany and europe making them the Worlds Largest decentralized memorial. And then there are the places of horror themselves such as auschwitz today its a memorial site that makes the nazis machine of genocidal destruction tangible to visitors what is the right form of remembrance. Posner the former german president. Said to two years ago there is no german identity without auschwitz remembering the holocaust remains a concern for all citizens who live in germany but can we really expect migrants to germany to share that view and also perhaps very young germans who say hey thats ago. Well theres just two aspects to this. The first aspect is this is not a german question the holocaust was and remains. Something that that is that is important for every person everywhere in the world whether youre a german whether youre a jew whether youre a german jew whether youre a german muslim whether youre an american if they have a Holocaust Memorial in washington d. C. Why they have a heart a caused a museum in los angeles why because this is something which we all need to think about so its not a question of can we expect out of my grandchildren to take responsibility given that you know that the great grandfather was a jews because we can can reach that young muslims of course we cant because every human being needs to understand that this kind you know this crime is something that must not happen again which leads us again to israel if youre talking about israel has no right to exist youre talking about denying six Million People the right to exist which is precisely what the holocaust was about the need to make this connection thats the second problem because people talk about the holocaust yeah well it must never happen again was not going to happen again like that its going to happen with an Iranian Missile on tel aviv its going to happen we you know with with with jews being with the synagogues being burned by arabs here in germany is going to happen in a different way and we need to make that connection if we have to disconnect a little bit from this criticizing israel i know you are saying it is possible and it is necessary to kind of disconnect. Yes where the jews went because the germans threw them out they didnt kill them so this is. Part of holocaust remembrance is supporting israel theres no way you can know but then its very difficult for people for example come from syria and who perceive israel as an enemy and if you talk about palestinians who are being occupied and who are being taken their rights from by this very state of israel it to criticize this this not must be possible by anyone in this and its not so easy to say you know that anti israel or critic is equal to and to say what isnt is equal to until you know for me we have to by mixing up these things this makes it more fluid to look at this with if i have to im not honestly im perfectly should be fitted with a palestinian who says i lost my my grandparents lost their home and so on and and i cant be expected to like israel but when he says were going to go back one day and this is going to be part of palestine with the with the flag and the jews you know who do you as they are going to be gone then i say may i just really sorry they say it all the time may i just interrupt here because i would like to come back to the culture of remembrance and ask you. After those december protests that we saw the pictures there were calls from a number of people for there to be mandatory visits to remembrance sites such as concentration camps for those young muslims in germany you said we have a problem particularly with young muslim men including young muslim men who have been here for quite some time would that be a good idea would that make a difference anything men dettori with teenagers will not work thats a very important point i think it would be very good if people come to the point that they would like to go there to confront the sister e. And i very much agree with mr posner that this is not a german thing that its an international unhistorical an International Scale a crime against humanity and it has to be remembered like this and this is the big chance for me if we consider this part of german identity then we have to make it more inclusive for whatever lives in germany. Base germany has changed germany is an immigration country its supposed to be an integration country so we have to talk in schools in a different way about the holocaust it shouldnt be just a chapter in the history class but it should be connected with what happened in the middle east after thats what at that time was going on there how did people all regimes position themselves to this what was the outcome of this holocaust in europe concerning palestinians and their being you know. Fourteen and being pulled out of expelled from their country so by by connecting this with other countries to make it more international the way of talking about it we keep it as one Important Pillar for german identity in some shots what do you think needs to happen the former head of the Central Council of jews in germany has called for the federal government to create a new authority that would monitor and defend against the rise of antisemitism as we said there have been calls for mandatory visits to concentration camps what steps do you think need to be taken now here in germany i think the fact that we will have a special envoy special on and to submit is a good step in the right direction. The other subject i must say that we are very good in germany in remembering in creating the more real we are world champions but the danger is that we have hidden our present day and to some it isnt that still there. Under those a memorial swe have to deal much more with present day and to some it isnt and the and to submit to all of those people who would who regard themselves as anti anti see that semitics and or anti racists because that is sometimes just a label and under the surface boiling so how how would you want to do that what you do for example with a show at the School Director who clearly didnt get what was going on in his school. Yeah i think there has to be accountability this guy is still the director off the school and what can happen to him the worst can happen that he is transferred to another school then the people have to deal with him though there has to be a accountability and the schools and the teachers they have to be put pat and trained to deal with those problems and they are not at the moment and they just put their head in the sand and thats it let me briefly come back to our title and ask all of you in one word if you look at the rest of europe the rest of the world how antisemitic instrument. Is so the middling. I think its more in tune than the rest of the on a bad enough. I think thats actually love the question the question is how is germany dealing with that existing at this moment just right now doesnt matter. And not well enough according to you thank you very much shock to all three of you for being with us today and thanks to all of you for tuning in please do watch the film because your adjuvant we are showing and thanks so much. Global. The worlds most powerful intelligence agencies. Working together on climate research. On the end of the cold war are made that possibly the United States and russia seems to be opportunistic the former foes became collaborators with the believe in math bengay could see the disaster situation subside mourning the fifteen minutes on the job. As long as. They nothing would change you know the banks pain. And so was the language of the bank. For speaking the truth global news that matters. Made for mines. Crime fighter. In the free deal on thrillers. Domestic violence cyber. 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