Learn german with d w. Any time any place. With or with jo jo and her friends. Colleagues is going to. Miss you expect to see some special close up. With friends all over the world. Online and interactive. German to go. Learn german for free with d. W. Revolutionary divider of the church great communicator im talking about Martin Luther with clausen from the Lutheran Church in germany the ek d. Welcome to the interview. Thanks for inviting me. Exactly five hundred years ago luther nailed his ninety five theses to the door of the Castle Church invited him back an innovative way of communicating a message was luther the first blogger. Yes. He might not really have used a hammer a nail. But he didnt just use the Printing Press to convey his message he created publicity and before that there hadnt been a public arena for debating and spreading ideas. You favor a traditional means of communication the book your latest one is called ninety five questions about the reformation it includes unusual questions such as who invented the most popular luther quote. So who was it. You know its a nice quote that goes even if i knew the world were ending tomorrow i would plant an apple tree today and we dont know who came up with it and a lot of luther quotes were made up and that one dates to after the second world war. It was a message of hope and attributing it to luther gave it added impact. And what does your book tell us about its author how does luther matter to you. I love luthers existential religious intensity. The fact that faith was so pivotal to him i think his passion is amazing. On the subject of books what would have become of luther if the Printing Press hadnt been invented just a footnote in history. He most probably would have been put to death during the persecution of heretics in the middle ages and his ideas would have been forgotten again on this one hundred book was his salvation i did i thought it was not just an instrument for spreading his message it gave him a public platform where he and design ideas could survive. Would it prove to be so influential this happened five hundred years ago how much of luthers thinking is still relevant. Yeah. Thats a very good question. Weve been examining it for the past decade and especially this year its important for german culture in general after all go to in chile didnt come all that much later. We think about our relationship to them what still moves us whats alien to us today. With Martin Luther there are issues that are still relevant such as the compatibility of faith and freedom the importance of personal faith and how this creates community. And also the question of how you live your faith and how its reflected in your professional ethos. These questions still affect us today. Would you say that luther fought against the catholic fundamentalists against fossilised beliefs and hypocrisy. Protestants like to see it but of course isnt it true you know its too polemical the fact is the papal church was very modern and highly innovative in a different sense. If what you mention luther is opposition to fundamentalism and that is still a very timely issue we are witnessing a lot of religious fundamentalism today luther did fight passionately for what he believed in and he was not tolerant but he was an anti fundamentalist he said religion should always be chosen freely you cant force it on anyone its come on. He also fought hypocrisy couldnt we do with some of that attitude today think of the climate agreements we sign and never actually implement. A. Doctrine of sin is hard for us to grasp today what exactly constitutes sin for luther. Its about lying to yourself. Lying to others and lying about your old tarrier motives he called for sinners to atone for their sins but what he meant was i understand youre so make peace with yourself and your fellow human beings and i see that as a universal issue that people. Are also had his dark side he was anti semitic he didnt think much of womens rights or of women in general is he really a role model candidate for. We shouldnt have role models we should learn from historical figures like Martin Luther. The woman question is actually quite differentiated is was a marriage of equals which was very unusual for the time that he was deeply conservative and from our perspective the worst thing was his hatred of the jews especially in his later years. I believe ive read that even his contemporaries were appalled by that to some extent thats why he was extreme even though he treated jews was widespread extreme often he wouldnt. Go. There preached freedom and freedom of faith and the individual but he also caused religious division which led to the violent and bloody religious wars in which hundreds of thousands died in the big question is was it worth it. I dont know. Thats a good question its never worth it a single human life is worth more than any theological principle and from todays point of view what happened is horrifying. But at the same time it was a hard one lesson in the value of religious tolerance for germany and europe you would think. So these days efforts are being made to heal the rift between protestants and catholics how has this year in particular helped rebuild bridges. Yes. Thats been a positive aspect of this five hundred Year Anniversary of the reformation. Not everything worked out so well but on many levels from senior bishops to local communities theres been much cooperation its all in a spirit of friendship a shared quest selfawareness and mutual curiosity. That cant easily be put into a legal or diplomatic text but it was a breath of fresh air with the Ecumenical Movement with it and what didnt work out so well. There were some advance where we were too selfinvolved and overestimated our capacity to mobilize the public they werent as well attended as we had hoped but we dont celebrate an anniversary like this one every day five hundred years of the reformation is a milestone and we need to learn how to be visible to society at large. If youre a Lutheran Church wants to reach out to catholics there are still fundamentalist elements in the Catholic Church who believe in the infallibility of the pope which is exactly what luther opposed will you ever reach agreement. I think well have to live with the fact that there are different forms of christianity we should learn to stop be moaning our differences and live with diversity which if you fight pretty these are for you personally the luther years meant hundreds of festivities Church Services podium discussions its very stressful what do you gain from the luther year more interest in the church more people joining the church and not just attending Church Conferences but other events too. Lets raise Public Awareness of basic issues that we address and which matter. And the media has played an important part. I think in addition to all the events there have been many high quality t. V. Programs radio programs and newspaper articles that show that there is considerable Public Interest in finding out more. Everybody wants to be recruited to the church but theyre interested in reading and learning about it so we want to be there for them and to answer their questions present. In recent years there have been reports about declining Church Membership including germanys Lutheran Church people are leaving in droves as the luther your stop this trend. You know it wasnt designed as a Marketing Campaign aimed at a turnaround but it might have had that effect exactly but i think major cultural events like this have a more subtle but also more sustainable effect that weve already gained a lot if weve awakened interest in religious questions in topics. For us its important not just that people come back to the church but that we the church reach out to people with cultural events and collaborate with museums and concert venues that we go beyond the church walls and i think that has happened in effect in how the game. Often they meet you. See the media focused on the Church Thanks to the luthor year and gave it a lot of coverage ive read that you didnt like one media description of luther as the first example of a socalled angry citizen why not. That. That was what it was a series in the magazine dish be good. But the media tends to over simplify. Calling loser the first angry Citizen Associated him with the wave of right wing populism were seeing in germany and i didnt like that Association Luther was passionate he was extremely polemical he could be very hurtful but he was also willing to compromise he had a gentle side he wasnt a right wing populist but what is the main thing you would like germany to take away from the luther year. An awareness of that time in history that has marked germany profoundly. Even in terms of the german language. And the question we should all ask ourselves how do freedom and faith go together. As the Lutheran Churches spokesperson on Cultural Affairs what do you think is luthers cultural legacy is it perhaps that the reformation is not just a german but a european idea oh. Yes thats such an interesting aspect of the reformation. We put it to luther in germany but this years events show that the reformation has a european context and piece of context that gives us a different understanding of our european neighbors france sweden switzerland and poland with their experience of the reformation. And that henry the eighth in the Anglican Church is split from the Catholic Church helps us understand britain and breaks it down the hatred of rome then todays a trip to brussels so many associations that give us fresh insight into todays diverse and very turbulent continent and. That leads in neatly to our part of the interview where we ask you to finish three sentences. My take home message from the luther year is an awareness of the freedom of faith as an amateur footballer im envious of full soccer stadiums because. Because of all the people singing in public like in church the places in germany where people sing together churches and stadiums does it people tweet more than they read to me as an author thats. Not enough of. Your him was close in thanks for talking to us. In good shape. On this edition were going to talk about hip replacement. First it hurts a bit then the pain doesnt go away and after that it gets worse when physiotherapy medications dont help anymore its time to hit the you are when is the right time to go for surgery. Be a good chick. D. W. Musical holiday greeting with Classical Music star sapphire and love. Love. Love love. Christmas in vienna from the piano concept house. To floods. Busy getting it come to life on budget but the right to our correspondent is in central istanbul im joined by the shellac up thirty dollars Political Correspondent on those stories in just a minute but first this news just in and its all about the perspective closer d. W. T. Fiesta. Images from an isolated country. Images from north korea any telling photographer captured fascinating shots of everyday life in a regimented society. An exclusive peek behind one of the last iron curtain its. A north korean diet starting december twenty eighth on t w. Welcome to in good shape coming up. Diagnostics what your eyes can tell you about your health