Guest here in valetta is the deputy Prime Minister chris has his government allowed the emergence of a math. And if so is it partly responsible for this latest killing. This was welcome to come to that for in the aftermath of the killing of Daphne Corona your Prime MinisterJoseph Muscat describe this rather curiously as a wake up call twenty eight bombings in malta since two thousand and three and this is a wake up call sounds as though youve slept through a lot of other wakeup calls that well actually whats happened recently is that. In this case particularly the police have done a very good job because bernie six weeks after the murder of the africa i want to go to the police managed to arrange three persons in Court Last Week i understand that but out of the twenty eight that have happened since two thousand and three only twenty six twenty six have remained unsolved while you see this this case and self wills. Bring gives us confidence that we might actually come back to the idea of the cases and for those of the world where you have a lot of it so that i have heard yes yes im very thankful but you didnt seem to manage on your own its so easy if youve only solved two out of twenty eight where you see the this case particularly in the current of the litter case wasnt was a something very shocking for the nation i mean this is well there wasnt any one no murder is normal in the but this was a particularly striking and shocking murder for us this was a criminal gang trying to give a bring out a message trying to. To give a message that. Different freedom of expression and what is threatened so this will smith of this very very grave very grave marker i understand them in just eight days may days after the killing the head of the italian anti Matter Commission warned that the mafia phenomenon as she called it was expanding in malta maffia phenomenon certain individuals she said were finding what she called hospitality to carry out their criminal activities particularly Drug Trafficking why do you offer hospitality to people like that in absolutely not i mean these were these are unfounded allegations and this is the law fear head of the commission nobody suitable to my knowledge she hasnt come forward with any evidence or thought and so its unfair to say that because somebody says something in the press somewhere else or anywhere in the world so you simply dismiss that thats not a bit of italian Anti Mafia Commission talks nonsense well there is what youre saying that youre putting words in my mouth and mouth but absolutely what im saying is that. As a european country we are members of the European Union rough european standards and we have the rule of law nobody is above the law well wait a minute do you say no european stance is always because she had complained that you are not cooperating with the corporate on the way to do the way to go about ngs is to go to the normal channels so the normal challenges are the magistrates and there are. Very well known and well respected magistrates on the island and they they do the work which she went through normal channels and she has requested the names of foreigners for instance who bought maltese passports currently being sold in return for six hundred fifty thousand u. S. Dollars no i disagree with that norma channelers dont mean that you can get any information from anywhere just by speaking in a newspaper there are the rule of law more than they would be in italy as there would be but i hope there would be an at and i hope it would be in germany and london whenever one of us on this information what they want in the future mission which is whos been whos boss. The passport what what national because there are rules and other names of the markers there are in the house and there are a lot of more read through it all havent you member of the European Club absolute youre supposed to help in the prevention of crime to do and we do absolutely but you know your thoughts on this information which would help in the prevention and i know youre wrong youre a poor here and they helped us to solve the or at least the rain people in the case of the car when i got it. And in this case that youre talking about for sure i mean you have. European countries that have european standards and youre selling passports to people and giving them a back to into the European Union not passing on how you are certain you are wrong you youre wrong this is what they say no no youre wrong what she says is wrong. I dont know what youre quoting curtseying but i can tell you what youre saying i was wrong because we our passports scream as you call it its a private investor scheme really is approved by the European Commission it is approved by the European Commission theres nothing that were doing which is illegal which is anywhere ill say will you go to Law Enforcement agencies are asked for information youre not providing we are of course we are but why did you say then the children long long for even if you havent given them the names you know the numbers and the nationalities of those who are acquiring these people. United know there is the there is europol as you say the re will cooperate completely absolutely one hundred percent of your report and of there are any requests that come through europe or they are in accordance with mortys law then we will go ahead and do that christopher on top of those concerns from the italians your own chief justice silvio coming larry felt the need in october to warn in the strongest possible terms that unless the authorities here carried out their duties impartially there would be punishment for some and not for others instead of the rule of law he said we will have the rule of delinquents why do you think he was warning so strongly about the rule of delinquents here in malta if everything. Is as you say he was legally fired he was speaking in. The annual gathering for the for the judiciary so who doesnt matter there was so serious you know it was a serious war that sort of i just put it in context i was talking to the judiciary in that context and yes absolutely anywhere in the world if the rule of law isnt covered and then theres a problem and we pride ourselves in doing this. Nobody is above the law wouldnt have given warning would why do you see spoke specifically about rule of delinquents no danger of the rule of delinquents here. The more it is the law states clearly that no theres nobody above the law nobody Prime Minister downwards and they have been allegations against people in Parliament People going in and cabinet even and they have been taken very seriously why not. You can accuse People Better the end of the hague has to be proven in court barely six weeks after this more shocking murder that weve had this kind of an ability murder we have actually a range of people in court i mean this is probably why i require an understanding you know that is going to get to the when theres a very Significant Development made a significantly it is very much you know the end of this really need to be. Responsible for this whole murder of a little boy going to the murder well lets wait and see for the compilation of of this brings up i mean lets wait and see what happens this is what happens in a country with rule of law you wait for courts to give you a whole lot of people dont think its a very narrow missive and you are only wrong in what you dont you dont get to extrapolate and make allegations fact is you have to wait until there was a as a nation last months from the European Parliament here which is a serious crimes and not being investigated by the police in malta do you take well as seriously that allegations of the off when any European Parliament is of course free to comment and we always think anything the European Parliament and the parliamentarians be. Morty is ill be the european seriously of course with you we dont always have to agree but what you fell out people badly with a recent delegation that came here the Prime Minister question whether whether the climate for them to come the Prime Minister met with did that again and then question whether it was useful for them to come because they appeared to have made up their minds anyway oh yes you see because that is a bit unfair if you come here every of make you appear in mind before you actually start investigation the thing that can be a bit unfair but not should we take anybodys comments. Seriously as far as long as they are fair comment do you take seriously that in the Transparency International corruption in the fall last year you fell to an all time low which was forty seventh place to take that seriously as well. I agree. When there are. No when there are concerns done and yes we need to look at this in fact what weve been doing over the last few months since the elections is that weve actually increasing or weve actually given and giving at the moment were discussing this in parliament and i spoke in parliament about this last week but giving a stronger rights to the mortys. Press for the First Time Since the statute books have been written were removing criminal libel there is this has been always. Since the war since the world war criminal libel here and more than we are living than just the wrongdoings that we understand but the whole place is no place in that thats exactly nicholas absolutely forty sevens place goes right against what youve been telling people that theres been various interests you said in an interview in july that transparency and accountability reinforce the fact that not only are we governing correctly but also we are seen to be doing it if you fall into forty seventh place in the corruption and i mean i really dont see that youre not being seen to do it they are reacting to that because as you say we know its not just doing it we have to be seen to be doing it and we are reacting to this part of the believe it take criticism and this is one way of doing it chris for. Just half an hour before dusk corona girl walked out of her house and got into her car for the last time she wrote in her blog there are crooks everywhere you look in the house the situation is desperate and her murder proved it didnt it thats thats the unintelligible no i dont think she was referring to the criminal gang that but i dont know what she was very interested to be honestly to be honest with you about what shed been talking about and writing about for the last two months before her for a brutal murder was the situation with the new leader of the opposition the new leader of the opposition in the year had been criticized very very anxiously bike i want to go to see over the last she criticizes english increases your government salute yes she has a right didnt go out to the opposition notion that shes she actually youre right you criticized back to everybody on the island that she had the right to do and people who feel aggrieved had the right to take her to court so this was all in all including the sloppy looting are no no no youre saying that she took on you know if. Youre saying that what she wrote was connected to the murder im saying it not knesset not necessarily indicate how do you think that theyre saying or what you but youre saying that that wasnt im saying its not necessarily the case we have to wait and see but if you are targets along with business absolutely Business People said that they were angry they took her to court as you would you want a normal country where the rule of law. And the rule of law more than one of your number decided it had to stop someone on this island decided you know how they are fairly geisha and im surprised that youre doing this what you say someone on this is a politician no im not saying i see how the politician has a view mr anderson. That is that someone decided that it had to stop this is really there are three people who are in the court in any country where there is the rule of law you wait for the court to give you the vision and that is what he wanted you and your legations on your part otherwise is extremely unfair somebody who doesnt have faith in the investigation here is it time you called for an independent. International mostly just said that we have the foreign foreign f. B. I. Europe or the dutch police force who are giving us and finish with what were getting and these are all International Organizations in europe or europe you know but if they were say a ship falling into our summer listening for you see there is the investigation is being led by a magistrate and the crowd want to go its your family have confidence in that not just reporting that the street and i just read that law and i as a government have absolutely full confidence in the in the magistrates and in the in the law courts here more than plenty of your colleagues losed her didnt they daphne khurana gurlitz they really loved her and i will say that now in february this year the minister of justice owen believe she called her extreme yet every spatola the Education Minister accused her of lying and attacking people who were sick. At the time of her death she was facing more than forty lawsuits including one from your Prime Minister absolutely and one so you went all the way with a vengeance didnt you know this is you see in a country where there is a rule of law journalists are allowed to say whatever they feel like but then of course if they Say Something which people feel aggrieved about whoever feels aggrieved what has the as right are taken to court but one of the cases this is happened when i was in cases where she was acquitted and there have been cases where she was found guilty as one of us is lets put it the libel suits were part of a wider strategy to shut her up they seem designed to eat up her time and her money no i disagree you see if you want to stand by the rule of law and we do then there has to be freedom of expression but of course people who are spoken about who are written about have a right to reply and to the plain court why not but one of your ministers Chris Cardona went so far as to get a court order to freeze her bank in the us so as to guarantee shed be able to pay up if she lost and that is what happened to the presumption of innocence while death is there you see this is what always happens everywhere in the world when there is a criminal or when there is a civil case then the person who is feeling aggrieved has the right to ask for a gun issue or there is this happens everywhere in the world surely you know quite criticising that. So many people though had a motive to order a killing in this Close Knit Community in that where there was a good chance of getting away with Violent Crime twenty six out of twenty eight bombings hadnt been so i come back to this you see because i say this again barely six weeks after the coroner going to she was murdered and the police are arraigning people in court even as we speak this week so surely what you are saying is doesnt stand. Had have the reset the straightaway but youre not going to believe that anybody want. To. Convicted youre not going to tell me that this was the show you think was. An entire significant i didnt say i wasnt saying well is a very significant is not the whole story youre not going to know me the whole story. That youve cracked the crime youve solved the crime in this case yeah this is what youre telling me lets wait and see what the courts come up with thats written minister in august that. Turned her fire on you didnt she personally she claimed you had failed to inquire why the government had signed what she called a shady deal for Public Hospital management with an untested new outfit called Vitals Global Health care. The Shadow Health minister said the deal stank of corruption why did you sign such an enormous deal with a company that was totally totally. Tested in this field of hospitals in that you are saying that this was me personally i didnt sign the myself so no but the government that the government just made that clear when i was saying you said. Oh yes the government signed this the its happening at the moment the hospitals are being developed the bards medical school here in watertown and started the start of the course. Of course first year medical students training on the island and with bots and the hospitals are running but one of the nominees available in the world that actually run the hospital before well this was you see this was a public tender it was a public quest for proposals there were a number of companies who applied and the educating board eventually chose one that had no track record in this field at all well its all just no way should those Partners HealthCare International who run the boston hospital as who are some of what this Actual Company vitals another run a hospital the vitals and so no my knowledge no blood but there are you choose for this control this is usually valuable contract well again two billion euros over the years isnt something that the minister decides theres an educated board which sees all day proposals and then choose of the proposal according to merit in october twenty sixth you released a heavily redacted copy of your green went with with vitals in parliament it wasnt till the full document was leaked to the times of malta that the exact terms were visible to the public why did you seek to restrict access to the term green part of the agreements as you would expect in any. Commercially sensitive agreement have need to be deducted by on advice of lawyers because theres. There are commercial sensitivities which will need to be protected so what damage was done by having the contract leak while you say it was the full question actually i havent seen this will contract that what the times have i dont know what they have they had details which you didnt originally support i dont know what it is the times have maybe you know more than a Company Managing three state hospitals being paid one hundred eighty eight thousand euros a day on the basis of no experience whatsoever in the field no no they are running the hospitals and those doing the monies that you mention are not not legal not not not Management Fees they are fees to run the actual hospitals so they are salaries for for doctors and for nurses they are. Expenses for medicines their expenses for keeping people and operating theatres so it doesnt stink of corruption in us the case that has caused the most problems began in april last year with revelations from the socalled Panama Papers the leak of these eleven million documents from the Panamanian Law Firm who should be named in them but two senior officials in your government former Energy Minister conrad mitzi and the Prime Minister chief of staff case came by both of whom i should emphasize insists they did absolutely nothing wrong you know mitzi it transpired and set up a trust in new zealand without telling the commissioner of Inland Revenue scammer he had a company in panama which the Prime MinisterJoseph Muscat only found out about in the media now instead of firing the two of them which the Prime MinisterJoseph Muscat talked about doing. He told a local newspaper under normal circumstances they would have had to resign but i also needed them to implement certain projects theyre not just friends which in this case is irrelevant i knew that speculation would mount on my decision to retain them but i put the Country First in order to deliver the power station and other things pretty brazen this pretty permissive you had two people who at least on the surface should have resigned but the Prime Minister kept Close Friends that. Nobody is above the rule of law here except for the no not you again youre wrong here there are magistrates who are actually investigating this so and some ongoing process if there are any if any of the allegations are found founded the fact after these allegations then yes they are not only will they have to resign they will have to face the decisions by the court the public is supposed to accept at face value that the Prime Ministers friendship with these two was a no consequence whatsoever but again you see there are thats why there are a Court Reporter people are tried in court theyre not ride on a Television Program you know you expect but what we have is a clear breach of cabinet rules and tax rules suddenly explained away is the best thing for the country by keeping these people. They are being investigated by magistrates so you make up the rules as you go along you make up the rules no absolutely we dont you see thats what we dont do we dont make up the rules as we go along we stick to what the rule of law states and the rule of law states that you are investigated by a magistrate not by the media in march twenty sixth the Prime Minister said. Paid a fine for his factual commission it turned out he had the Prime Minister corrected himself the next day has mr nitze now paid his fine pay the fine not for for not telling the commissioner of income taxes about the foundation in new zealand im not aware of that i dont know the details of that. Or is that Something Else the public is not entitled to know i dont have the details of that myself it doesnt mean it hasnt happened i dont know and the Prime Minister said that he scammer he would resign if criminal proceedings personally started against him yet but instead of going on with that we now discover this year leaks from the states financial watchdog the Financial IntelligenceAnalysis Unit showed that in this case they had sufficient evidence to conclude a reasonable suspicion of money you know their fire you deny that they have denied it they have. The European Union drew attention to this so they had no suspicions therefore you have the nie that theres a report because of what year it was always there was an alleged what you are referring to is that there was a person who said he said this in the media that he has knowledge that there was something which was kept secret therefore you are saying that there was no such completed report that there might have been a draft that this person referred to but again you see. There are courts and if there is evidence then they should go to the court there is and there is a magistrate who is investigating all these on the hearings and they should come in and the magistrate will we were we will go along with whatever the courts say the man is i have an option we decide something that we choose to go on what emerges is going up as an elk i magine straight in for decided to launch an inquiry didnt it but the Prime Minister along with six others ghost court tried to shut down this inquiry if they have a right smart in court that if you wanted to get to the truth why did the problem is to go along to shut down the very inquiry that would have been a little boring no but this is something you see and you say you are open and transparent the Prime Minister hasnt shut down the inquiry the Prime Minister has he went along to ask for here asked in court because there has a right to do that why not why this is one way but if you want to find the truth why shut down the inquiry that might deliver it but you see this is it hasnt other than he has asked for it hasnt succeeded yet mighty fast if you want to shut it down yes and he has a right Prime Minister he has a record to the truth of the rather go to court and defend himself in court surely youre not saying the Prime Minister because he is Prime Minister has them the same rights that any citizen has to go to court and defend his not understand that but hes not defending his name is trying to shut down the inquiry before the inquiry islam is a holy see theres a lot of he doesnt even want to know the truth or you are wrong and this is. Just by the korean as a Prime Minister hes got as any normal citizen would do. Going to court to defend his name and this is a long time to actually have to guess now defending his name is of course it because if its an if if the court is independent and is going to do it was you know what the court said then it would bring out the truth but he doesnt even want to let it get that she was gone shut it down well see where it became all over and agree with this or not they get this is again from shot down a Court Hearing that would deliver the truth as over and understand that it is that when challenged he wanted to do it well to go are appealing and stay here it is appeal you see you your say yes you can choose a challenge isnt it its a challenge surely quarter to appear at the court surely a lot of you are not allowed to do that then theres no rule of law if the courts just dish out sentences i know then you are not allowed to appeal its a result of this it doesnt even want the inquiry to take place have to wait and see what the court he doesnt want to inquire have to wait my support say this is the permissive atmosphere in which you get killings of jaws into israel for now because theres a bit of. Fear because somebody is appealing in front of the chords then you say that this isnt a tumor this is absurd nonsense im afraid have to set down since absolutely it doesnt show much respect for the rule of law does it on the contrary because there is a rule of law you have to go by what is normally allowed to do and used to shut down investigations. Youre allowed to appeal because i like any other. One because your Prime Minister going to water the citizens there and agree. Mr christopher has been good to. Lists. Lists. Lists. Lists. Are going. To. The im going to be. Eager to tackle global challenges the in our series founders delhi. India a country thats drowning in plastic waste. Lives the lives. Of the summit. People who fight for a clean. Part of our series founders sally in thirty minutes. Well you. Do w. Me speaking the language. 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