Tuesday by the head of the International OlympicCommittee Told us buck and today in light of that announcement many are once again asking whether next summers soccer world cup which is of course set to be hosted by russia is in the right down after all one person above all looks to benefit from the tournament that is allowed to be an appointee so the question here on quadriga this week is putins games is russia playing fair with sports and to discuss that question im joined here in the studio by Eric Kirsch Boehm who writes for the Los Angeles Times and who has a long track record in covering sports and especially soccer and he says banning the russian team from the Winter Olympics is a bold but brilliant move also with us is very near as you paul from deutsche about his Russian Department he believes it doesnt matter what you think of the russian government the twenty eighteen world cup is going to be a huge celebration of soca for everybody bloody me its not doing and that has to be good he ses and a warm welcome to to downing is a car choke a freelance journalist working for russian and english language publications dani argues that the doping scandal is painful to witness but not really surprising to anyone familiar with the mindset of russian officials. Welcome once again to all for if you would like to begin with you eric it was described as one of the weightiest decisions ever faced by the Olympic Movement it has now been decided russia has been banned from competing in the twenty eight hundred. Intermix in south korea you say it is a bold but brilliant move why bold why brilliant i think the i. O. C. Needed to take a firm step this time theyve been pussyfooting around for a long time with doping and the evidence was overwhelming in this case criminal energy that in when the sochi to using spies to exchange the urine samples is amazing when you read this you just cant believe this really happened and they had to do it to save any credibility the Winter Olympics have been sliding downhill for a long time in the ratings people care less and less about it i used to love sports i used to go to the i covered the olympics in athens and beijing now i dont even watch it i think its all just ruined by doping so this is a really heartening development for me to see the i. O. C. Taking a firm step i think thomas bach did the right thing by cracking down hard but leaving a bridge open for the russians to take part if they can prove that theyre clean being you might say you might say you might say bold and brilliant is the zero tolerance of the International Olympic committee had promised because there will be russian athletes after all competing at the at the games hopefully the russian hockey players figure skaters sports where doping is not really an issue hopefully the world will see some of these great russian hockey players on the ice im looking forward to seeing russian hockey players again. Before i come to the two russians who have it we have in the finals and id just like to stick with you for just a secondary because i mean. Let me give you a flavor of whats being said from the russian side a Russian ForeignMinistry Spokeswoman came out and said theyre always trying to put down put us down in everything our way of life our culture our history and our sport what do you say to such sentiments its ridiculous i mean its the soul and circle mentality we see it with nato theyre afraid that nato isnt circling this well i think most people in the west realize this is ridiculous and hopefully nobody will take it too serious thats russias problem of they feel that the west is in a circle and thats russias problem they think that the i. O. C. Is going after them for doping when theyve been caught red handed i think most people outside russia see it differently. Not him has been looking very thoughtful daria has been looking very thoughtful dora you say you are your personal reaction to this you talk about doping scandal of the whole saga being painful tell us about the pain well to be honest i guess just like most people in russia i did not expect the russian team to win the sochi olympics so when russia won it was a great surprise i was actually really happy to witness it and cheer just like everybody else. It was a great surprise but then afterwards when this whole doping scandal started i realized that it was fake the feeling could be compared to someone giving you a Christmas Present making her happy with it and then you realize that the gifts are is actually have betrayal shoplifter we stole a present from someone else yeah i was not surprised of eating no such i didnt expect was its perfect at that are russian Political Goals i think the russian on some political they all wanted to be first on the sochi olympics at any cost and it was no question of course the time four years ago and three and a half years ago so russia got this prize in the sochi olympics with huge cost of opening and this is the problem of russia to have a huge difference on the International Level in the have a reality of it not always fit to be some decisions because this can be used dumping which is the same things to do so ban of from the olympics and such as in korea its complete disaster for russians no question there im pretty sure that was the goal but i remember reading all the forecast right before the olympics nobody expected for russia to be even to take even the search place where it is now. So it was a nice surprise for russian people and im surprised the russian norman but as i started to im not surprised but fulfilling these goals by any means before we continue the conversation and lets just take a closer look at what is. The allegations of state backed doping amounts to. The twenty fourteen Winter Olympics in sochi russia the host nation won thirty three medals more than any other country russia and president Vladimir Putin came off looking like champions but did they play fair or were the real champions that doping laps. Two years after the games had investigator for the World Antidoping AgencyRichard Mclaren published some serious allegations that the Moscow Laboratory operated for the protection of doped russian athletes within a state directed feel safe system the Russian Ministry of sport directed controlled and oversaw the manipulation of athletes and little results no less than the head of russias own antidoping lab grigori wrote chunk of was chief witness he left for the United States as did you yesterday part of a runner who had reported systematic doping in Russian Sports started the ball rolling. Are the accusations of state sponsored doping just mudslinging against russia. But i mean what do you say to that question are these allegations just mudslinging on the part of the west a conspiracy on the part of the west against putins efforts to make russia once again a strong nation it fits the. Kind of paranoia i have in the country since couple of yes. Im not sharing this so its not my opinion but its an opinion who is sharing a lot of people in russia the vest on war us joe many in portugal are trying to destroy russia on some level. And its a bad thing because theres no way out sort of just escalating with every sanction against russia just as collating this conflict there between russia and the vest and mark haines all im not sharing this opinion is the mindset that you with the russian mindset that you were referring to the beginning of the show and your quote of the beginning that well i meant actually Something Else something or also mentioned. That it is pretty common for russian officials to chip to cheat on things i mean russia is a remarkably corrupt country if those people without blinking an eye steal so much money from the state budget why cant they fake doping samples thats a good point. If they do not value any kind of fair play they just want a victory at any price because you know so you have no such rules came in best and lawrence russians are quite Young Country and germs of state structures because they have complete collapse under state ninety one so i really think is new in the these rules fixation in russia is not that strong that in germany are in the best and in general so their all is a question of how to interpret your interpretation there are all saw you can steal you can cheat you can not get punished but this is a mind sent in the country its not the government in my mindset of its there in all and all a new level and in the country in russia in the population its like acceptable very kewl thought i mean hopefully thats why i think this is a good move by the i. O. C. Is hopefully theyll learn the lesson this time i think i would talk about east germany and germany they had their whole doping history as well i think germany learned from that i dont think germany anybody thinks that theres any serious doping going on in germany. So hopefully these sanctions will have a educational effect on not only russia but other countries that are thinking about doping and thats why i think its a smart move by the i. O. C. Tough sanctions but leaving the door open for individual russian athletes to take part in voting have what did you what did you make of the announcement yesterday president putins announcement that he is going to be standing again for the presidency what did you make of the timing of that announcement im not surprised after the over and if i mean again its just accidental that that was yesterday it could be tomorrow it could be the day before i mean it doesnt play in your role naturally you see it differently i mean yeah i wouldnt even say its a new thing everybody knew he was running on ok lets listen to the talking of president putin and what he has been saying he also came out yesterday didnt just talk about the candidacy he talked he gave his Immediate Reaction to the doping ban lets listen to what Vladimir Putin had to say. To really get upset you all of this looks like an absolutely manipulated and politically motivated decision. We see this i have no doubts about it because you could use them you. Got in there is this i mean the language that you get from the russian president the sense is that the east and west are still locked in a sporting cold war is not the case i mean to see itself as i mean im russian citizen but im not see myself as a part of this paranoia but russian government and to be part of Russian Society see themselves in a kind of cold war with the best and obviously saw what happening with the Olympic Games and fits perfectly to this picture of the birth of you know trying to be destroyed on some level by the best in country and so im not surprised but its statement on their record cold war sporting cold war between the east and the west you smile i think its ridiculous but i mean i think this fits into putins strategy and it makes put more popular at home probably but makes him less popular around the world i think he just hurts his credibility outside russia more and more with this strategy i think putin doesnt really care about his proper chain of work and its out of question for him one question that comes to mind is this putin care for the athletes i mean the athletes in some ways if you just perpetrate is part of the russian doping system but at the same time theyre also victims of the system you mentioned you know east german systematic doping in east germany. You know that had a huge impact on the health the Long Term Health of many of the people who were you know involved in those doping practices how concerned is putin about that how concerned are russian people about that russian people as very concerned a mob of because without Winter Olympics its a disaster for russia because were all im not saying the upsets but the Winter Olympics but its playing extremely huge role in the russian Public Opinion so is a child to youre bringing up in russia watching every four years theyre going to him because you know youre get used to not seeing russian fake not hearing russian anthem and their name because its a disaster. How are the russians likely to respond in sporting terms darted to this. I have been observing the reactions in the media for the last couple of days since the news breaks and since yesterday. I could say that the reactions of very different quite a lot of people are saying that the russian team should go anyway. I am personally on that side as well because for the athletes it is something they have been preparing for for their whole lives it is really could be a pinnacle of their career for many of them they definitely deserve to go if they can prove that they are clean. And i do not think why they should miss out on any of it but quite a lot of people are saying that the asteroids going anyway despite the ban on the russian team would be tantamount to National Treachery that is something that as a as a russian journalist here a lot of those once unfortunately people somehow tend to associate the country the state and the name of ludmer putin together and if you do something which is not in the general line youre supposed to be a traitor so its deciding to go and compete on the olympics just because of their ambition despite their country being so not representing their country but more representing themselves to some people would by some people would definitely be seen as torture and we have already seen reactions like that quite a lot actually but thankfully putin himself has said that he will not be obstructing athletes to go from so im quite hopeful that a lot of russian efforts would say it was a really encouraging signal this week that putin did call for a boycott there was a fear that he would even it i mean we had the eighty in the eighty four olympics that were tainted by the political boycotts over afghanistan and so its encouraging i mean this is why im optimistic that it could be a good olympics after all and that russia will be back with its team in four years you just have to do the best from the situation and outlets to go into. And to try to show all the work that we convened with all dumping on. Just give me a word on whether you believe because we keep talking a lot of new putins controlling role role in all this does does he know we sure that he knows and has known about the about the extent of the the systematic doping practiced by the Russian Federation i dont think anything i dont know anything for sure but im kind can just fickle a bit you know and new in just tired of all these docking system im not sure the huge new everything in the last detail he aligned himself very closely to the sochi olympics fifty billion dollars were spent to build a winter olympic venue in a summer resort the i. O. C. Loved him for it nobody really wants to bid for the Winter Olympics anymore putin did and so putin baka very close thats why its all the more remarkable that bach had the courage to take these sanctions so its hard to imagine putin had no clue this was going on but im not sure he was controlling the state pumping system in the last no no i dont know either and nobody knows everything about whats going on. We cant on this because no one knows for sure you know. I wish i did i wish i did yeah ok we need to move on just a little bit we need to talk about how the the doping saga the doping scandal is going to impact on russias hosting of the soccer world cup next summer especially given the amount of hope that russian president Vladimir Putin is investing in the world cup and the russian people indeed thats what your report first of all before we talk about that. Allegedly already. The strong man in the kremlin knows p. R. Protean is well known for his love of images like these the athletic outdoors the sportsman and he has no qualms about showing it potent is not known as a football fan but he brought the twenty eighteen world cup to russia and russians are overjoyed. He will definitely play in the finals im just waiting for the finals and were going to win ive been waiting for this World Championship for forty years now. That. The countdown to the twenty eighteen world cup in russia is on its the same year as russias next president ial elections it may well provide a handsome return our sports in russia upon and putins power games. Its a question we will we have been addressing we will continue to address but i want to go first of love the man who is a very very big soccer fans and who is looking forward very much to the soccer world cup tell us more about him that im really Walking Around looking forward to his sort of game in some sort of book in my home every time i reference and put his book in the middle of the night im passing on the new highway by a new soccer star and once in the book and its complete serial thats whats it got in the city im breaking from my tickets for one game and simpers book which argentina participates oh i got this ticket and i won to say that. Its not on the porch and rush is on amount of people as well and its for russian people on the average level from normal russians its a huge huge celebration its a huge event and the whole situation for his book as well as other see just as there are all across russia looking forward to hostile work to come no matter how bad the dropping was no matter how bad the corruption was. No matter how many money was stolen during these buildings its a huge step abrasion and i was talking to a leading german sports journalist after the announcement of the ban on the russians participation in the in the Winter Olympics came through and he said you know big reporter on suck a big fan of soccer very passionate about soccer he said in my working life and in my own life i have a sort of rhythm i go from the European Championship to the world cup to the European Championships the world cup and thats how my lies found out very much and he said yeah great he said this time around i cant generate any enthusiasm for the world cup in russia because of put because its such an free country what do you say to that kind of every every country was who was hosting the world cup in the last year brazilian south africa had this set of domestic problems in brazil it was a huge protest against a sort conference south africa was. Fighting with some domestic problems was about so russia is not a perfect country germany expecting us to be perfect in germany expecting everyone to have an effect germany. But we are not perfect we are by far not perfect country theyre stealing money cheating their savior doping in the olympics are not perfect so we are not fitting in this perfect expectation of the german Public Opinion in pub or german media to deliver a perfect Perfect World cup never have asked you to be for me as a russian citizen that it would be a huge huge. What he said as well as harry can you enthusiastic about the upcoming soccer world cup oh yeah absolutely it was covered the world cup in germany in the world cup in brazil four years ago and i think its a great chance to see and learn more about the country i think the world got to see what real germany is like in two thousand and six with the world cup here there was a lot of outdated views of germany in the world got to see what a friendly smiling country this is helpful people good weather and it was a great tournament and hopefully. Itll be a great tournament in russia as well and the world will get to learn more about russia away from putin away from politics excuse me its exactly the point theyre both companies are in germany three if youre known few years ago six it was not about miracle and what Company Russia two thousand and eighteen is not on the ball but sometimes i have an expression and i knew i didnt say the germans are hypocrites im saying that the german Public Opinion is a kind of obsessed by put him in even if you talk soccer if you even if you talk talks for its in soccer all the baby coming back the fortune. He speaks german he was a k. G. B. Agent here theres the obvious first yeah and then drop it. Down to what he said im thinking of the russians much more than on the one person russia is so much more than on the pushing yeah i would really like to support that i mean as a russian journalist and reporting about russia for the english language so you agree with a lot of me yeah thats right you know its just putin definitely yeah yeah im going to say i mean you really want you know somebody who has reported on Human Rights Concerns there are massive Human Rights Concerns about russia there have been is this just a sort of a fiction of the west or is this is this the west fifty is it a poll kristie once again on the part of the west to focus on gay rights on racism on human rights in general i definitely do not think this is it is hypocritical of the western media to focus on it western public to look at it because it is happening on this huge scale. I mean remember only this year there was this huge scandal with the gay people being murdered in chechnya so. Dozens of people gay men in chechnya which is the region in the south of russia in the caucasus. Tortured some of them managed to escape some were killed some of them were killed by their own families who were forced to kill them to clean their own or. I have only today actually checked a report by a social scientist in russia who counted that since two thousand and ten there has been over two hundred murders of gay people around russian you know dont get me wrong and is not perfect and they have a huge huge so for domestic problems gay rights human rights criminality you name it but every country in the world to is applying to. Be hosting their work got brazilian South African whatever its all they something you can talk about criminality in brazil youre talking. You can talk about hiv in south africa there is always something to talk fact remains though that vitale motoko there yeah work has now been banned by the International Olympic committee of his role in the systematic doping. That has led to the ban he never lets the last remains correct me if its not true the man effectively in charge of the world cup at the upcoming world cup and hes deputy russian Prime Minister this is not just this is serious its huge now and its as if its a disaster its a disaster for russian public its a disaster for russian government and its disaster for everyone because of the such high level if youre International Organization like i. O. s saying retiling would call your band its a disaster no no doubt. Certainly a massive stain on the russian world cup i mean who knows maybe you wont be there by the time that the tournament starts but it is it is absolutely big problem and you will see what happens if you still there do you expect political process like you know the way that we saw through surf and russert russia last time brazil last time around booed by brazilian soccer fans do you expect that kind of thing to happen in flooded with putins russia during the world cup it is a very interesting question because as it as we all know the same here is the president ial election so there has already been at least two big protests several actually and russia this year and there will probably be next year as well but the russian state i am not really an expert in brazil so i do not know how vigorously. How vigorous is our place compared to brazil but it was brutal in moscow i remember in june there were i think around a thousand people arrested during a one day is a record there has never been Something Like that so this intimidation tactic may have worked out and there might be no protests at all i can hardly imagine russian public lighting were printed on the stadium you know i was going to try to move call a just to go into. The yeah i think if you can because everybody you know i still. It wasnt nor was the border ok were drawing to a close id like to ask the two russians and again. About their views on me putin says he welcomes the world coming to russia theyre going to see russia for themselves what are they going to take away from them with them in a sentence. I hope they take away something good. That they see the friendlier more open part of russia and the. Young people in it and. One sentence rationally so much more than just. Ok believe that russia is so much more than just frozen thank you very much for joining us im wondering at this time we look forward to seeing you again next time around five by interest. To. Say. Its all about the stories you can see. Its all about George Chance to do. Cover the world from different perspectives. Join us and inspired by distinctive instagram or others at g. W. Stories new topics each week on instagram. Losing your homeland because of persecution society. Starting from scratch in an unfamiliar country. Five people who found a new home in a foreign land. With their stories books and music theyve built bridges to the past and the future. After the escape starting december seventeenth d. W. Theyre black and living in germany. Shes reminded what that means on a daily basis presenter john up i guess not being able to blend in and i was. Taking a Holiday Group and being you know different than the way. She travelled across germany to meet other black people and to hear their stories. Its that. I grew up in a white family in a white neighborhood it was definitely a challenge. She decided to put me up for adoption. The main thing was to keep your head down and your mouth shut of course of the face like this i could never completely disappear if you see all these stereotypes about africa it gets you. To do something for your country but youre still the black guy with an. Afro germany starting december tenth d. W. This is italy news live from berlin on edge to us president toms move to recognize jerusalem as the capital of israel sparks hamas to call for a new uprising. As