Economy in ruins what business have they got continuing to govern. Well one of the welcome to conflict zone thank you tim thanks for having me where you have your new president saying that he was inaugurating a new democracy this is a man who in the new years has shown no inclination to promote democracy in any form whatsoever whats to suggest that hes going to change and i think. Thats unfair creates team to say that he didnt show any inclination to promote democracy what you are talking about is a man that has been a speaker of parliament who showed an even handedness in parliament for the tempi for the time he was one were talking here of a man that lost elections and was happy to accept the results therefrom were talking of a man whos been individually named and sanctioned by the e. U. First in two thousand and two when the European Council expressed serious concerns among about Human Rights Violations by the government of zimbabwe among two hundred seventy three other people absolutely collective responsibility yes going to councils back was extended in two thousand and four in two thousand and nine they accused him with them and then god work as a member of the government of engaging in activities that seriously undermine democracy respect for human rights and the rule of law seriously undermine democracy that doesnt sound good for the future thats the you know hes seen a lot thats thats your parlance which would have been a play to. It isnt but when a determined were talking two hundred seventy three members of the establishment so youre basically saying that theres an army there all of this moment military forces should because the top iraq war then well youre saying the bureaucrats youre saying the journalists that were there were undermining democracy in the same outfit doesnt make it already does it went along with the system doing its best to extinguish democracy home here and off the narrative thats not correct whats what everybody else got it wrong were going to brown the us which also sanctioned him got it right everybody got it where they went in terms of know you were so misunderstood. Thats correct the point im making is yes they way Human Rights Violations that starts goes without saying and yes were in mission of building but yes weve taken responsibility for this week went and put in place a new constitution adversary than any responsibility to because nobodys been brought to justice but because not a cause because of the cause of cost because of course to what we have a new us which is coming police of National Reconciliation where this all of these matters will be dealt with so we do all really National Recognition of healing yes i think also going to deal with the most serious allegations made against mr monk which came in a two thousand and two un report to the Security Council it called him the key strategist of an elite group involved in illicit Diamond Trading if you read that when i read the reports and that report is full of conjecture and innuendo eleanor facts was wherever they were simply calling in the benjamin if you read into an embarrassment over an investigation what investigation then you enjoy these allegations what allegations that you were the beginning of all of a whole bunch of the reports of the networks which he was a senior figure who made money through what they called a variety of criminal activities including theft embezzle meant diversion of public funds and devaluation of goods smuggling false invoicing nonpayment of taxes kickbacks to Public Officials and brian. If you had read that reports as you want to pretend you did you would not have a chance. Of returns you did but these vitalistic theres no specific theres no specific allegation what is simply says that guy was innocent or tell he was the bad man it was was the speaker of parliament was the bad man for the government of zimbabwe government of zimbabwe thats what the thats what the report says but theres Nothing Specific the government will be investigated here not even worth investigating hes above the law anyway so why if why but if they know if theyre in the congo or lost some damage or lost money to nangarhar or allegedly they should its for them to investigate whats theres a bit investigate its not zimmerman demos were talking about here is what its structure thats ok then if they came from the same democratic republic of congo always they find a must in its eyes its not theyre not im saying its not our responsibility is to use money to investigate things that happened in the congo when its not as well as the man in the congo if there most anybody because the accusations are not on when and where they are on im out in multiple operations the many governments organise many governments so let them investigate mr miller do you expect zimbabweans never mind the International Community simply to gloss over all this instead of seeking a detailed accounting of what took place or dont you care or dont you simply dont care or dont you see the router as the rose petals which of which mr mandela were in the in the generals are being thrown i mean. Fitted with their been fitted with rose petals right now they are heroes including the generals are talking about all were involved in all of this that youre talking about so it means muslims are happy with that situation the people that have happy as you are really you know were happy however what is happening with iraq when we come on to that illuminate lets lets talk about the Public Theater of the last ten days to talk about here mr mugabe wasnt pushed out in order to bring in democracy thousand p. F. Had been perfectly happy trashing democracy for thirty five years the thing that brought change was the turbot realisation that mr. He was going to bring his wife into the top job and that would have upset all the vested interests in your country people who counted on. Coming in to protect their interests and their secrets you know couldnt now couldnt risk of that now could you risk that not us of course what people cannot risk is somebody who they thought was to be unstable in who appeared in behaved in a stable way to take over the controls of power in zimbabwe it would establish it would have destabilized the whole country it would have to serve as the region that was the concern thats not the view of did in most veteran of the liberation struggle he was close to mugabe for fifty years he was quite clear the army intervened he said to save zanu p. F. Not the country but he was you know this must not turn out just because there is a member of the opposition who also is with vested interests in the veteran of the liberation it is a matter he said in and of the something is wrong he says the armed forces in saturdays opinions and yet he says the armed forces made up of zanu p. F. Members he said not democrats intent on are sharing in a pluralistic system not democrats intent on pushing in a pluralistic system so in other words forget about democracy not just isnt it in other words just a sense because it is a bitter said old man thats what im saying this is were going to for democracy lets forget about what a member of the opposition would say again as an cuts they also go in saying that but move the c. F. O. Down of even at the swearing in ceremony there were people were taken a look at them because the president of botswana for one in karma he said it pretty clearly i dont see why i should wish him mugabe well if he cared nothing for his own people why should i care for him and then there were the crowds that booed the Police Commissioner general gus the ensuring there were calls for him to step down you think gave you talk about rose petals for everybody its not rose positive im sure you didnt actually check the relationship between the people of zimbabwe and the Police Commissioner general the generals the rest of the army or the. Of the city secure crowds and the general in the room. Why do you think the police were mental strength to stand down why are they wanted right now as im talking to your starting joint patrol patrols with the army because the police were not trusted by the people they were not trusted by the army they were not trusted by the support they were trusted by only president mugabe why because the person that was second in command of the police is his cousin and and the war point was to safeguard that president s mr i want what is disturbing to many people to be in your country plenty of science that the new president is no different from the old world you take is warning about pluralism and political opposition those who oppose us will park and park he said they will continue to park but the zion and p. F. Train will roll on ruling and ruling while they park again its all about the pasty nothing about the crash last thats a misinterpretation of what actually thats a direct quote of what you said yes but i would tell you any court get taken out of his context he loses many you think this man is ever going to allow the barking dogs of the opposition to sweep him out of power. If they win not a chance if they win he words if they really would its when you use the backing phrase its not only about opposition its its even included grace what you are simply saying is when im focused on Something Like a train or a locomotive every dog will run which runs around alongside the tracks can bark and bark but the locomotive does not stop its called a locomotive is not a country zanu p. F. As far as hes concerned he is a live via call for true force transformation within the country its really just falls it has his army calls from thirty five years its trash we made mistakes trash democracy were trash now cant it we didnt trust democrats but yes we made mistakes and yes we messed up the economy state last year we disaster whatever whatever line you turn youre in. Very friendly guy youre a nice jovial sort of falling over the edge for whatever line you turn you know full well that mr and guy grace hostage to the brutality of the brutal record of zanu p. F. Using your theory is period as head of Central Intelligence in the mid 1980s coincided with the most brutal of all mugabes massacres in the socalled book or on the killings in which up to twenty thousand from the in the bailey tribe were killed or disappeared he was denied any role but actually the state controlled by the way a chronicle reported at the time that he compared to citizens to bugs cockroaches that is such an epidemic the government needed to bring in d. Day alger thing to get rid of the actual thing so its work is good yeah i hear i had you now give me a chance to respond to you first thing is we way in a very intimate very formative years of our country mistakes were made and that excuses massacre not even tolerance and he doesnt exist in one of many cities and simply say we made mistakes so thats an admission that he made mistakes was number one number two during that period when he was many sort of security he was coming to poland into account for his actions all the time with a very robust parliament at that time and it would have somethings yes with mr crimes this was these were parking offenses for which you know to quell or pay a fine this was murder on a grand scale there were mistakes all its mistakes and they would be just an understatement in history was the man or not mistakes its not its a slow made mistakes that is stalin made mistakes you know there were mass murderers this was mass we lost will diminish it now will of the militia not will last till we lost people we lost is about wins and. For you k. I was for it to its unfortunate that it happened but in the formative years of any nation if we go back to the history of britain who find that there were pages there were people that died it does not it doesnt it doesnt clear people it doesnt make it any better but the fact still remains in a formative years of a nation things who happen which notions must happen however that should not have happened mr and violence stamped into your partys d. N. A. And thats already been proved yet again in the last week the very day the new president was sworn in the former finance minister Ignatius Trumbo was handed over to the police by the military who had beaten him up severely and while he was held in custody and the end were to testimony is total emissions trouble is that the minister talking about salvation in these various vision told what he himself in his testimony in chief he never said was when he was president wrong is he wrong you know he says he was tortured he has the they did it in the activist lawyer is wrong because the actual person didnt allege and deny it telling me and i didnt beat him up no they didnt beat him up and he never you know in the same fact even best well you never said that he was here this refers to fight in court when by the court record isnt it when when somebody says the plays on or off if thats what we go by i saw you know why we making it up as his lawyer said it was a very brutal and took only in the way dealing with a problem is if he says that but i can accept very much so and i tweeted about it myself that this is not the way i want to do things but so thought is the country youve created a few weeks ago the man are you calling a start up and. Let me finish the man who is now president had to flee for his life a couple of weeks ago and it doesnt end thats an unfortunate set of parties as gay she isnt its not funny i dont like him why dont i see any of the politicians had to flee him i dont know i said i dont accept your calling me and my countrymen but i would say that it was it wasnt conventional it was wrong it shouldnt have happened that way but when it starts isnt it and you know right before you is not seated upon isnt it time you came out whats been going on in your country all these years apart from just. Trying to get out of it by calling it a few mistakes and meet it that people deserve Something Better than p. F. Ok people really dont know people deserve what they vote for exactly thats what does that what democracy about it if People Choose an appeal then that deserves an opinion isnt it are you going to prescribe leaders was an awful prison for the people of zimbabwe they made a choice theyll make a choice in july or so theyll make a choice again they choose not to be if thats what they deserve i put it to troy smith who was his Vice President for ten years yeah yeah that under mugabe zimbabwe became a byword for corruption murder trial cities and torture she didnt argue with that she didnt know she said its a fact whats known again when you quote opposition we were as good as she was the decision she was with him for ten years yeah but then Vice President by then but then if you had said sorry for any of these mergers corruption atrocity you know its too much corruption is there and its a problem there you go ive made an admission made us not to the scale you want to say things happened as i told you nine hundred eighty which shouldnt have been the one hundred eighty which shouldnt have up and there you go you love those understatements things happened no these were murders and massacres carried out this was brutal brutal violence and you know it was a satanist it was things happen when im saying but if you are playing it down well they want you know where your result they were told. They were dissidents one to the way tory so we actually kidnapped and killed there with they were somewhat age of infrastructure there were elections violence especially around the point thousand and eight am i explain what i mean by things happened so the response to the response to that was disproportionate yes and thats why im saying things happened because things happen on both sides and thats the phrase i. Is it would not raise temperatures in ethnic tensions and Public Interest in the exactly i think what you are trying to do in january on the voice of america you were asked why your party hasnt been more successful in improving lives for the majority of zimbabwe three and a half decades. And you replied its a matter of time its not going to happen overnight of course you will end it and there are you trying to and its never t. Seventy years and you say its a matter of time saying im not going to have another one i want people to spin saying this status of in years mantra theyve behaved they pretend that theres not nothing good happened in zimbabwe when when who electrification went around when people when they were a lot of educated people when schools were built when the provincial was president for all spittles were built with university only sort of the university and now weve got sixteen things positive things happened in zimbabwe you know if you feel its not because you dont nobody denies you ok its ok its only its not its your education but in the last wrote achievements its not a wasted thirty seven years that you see but as for the economy you know the man i work you certainly dont want to know why go yes when im sorry but it will certainly set records but they werent the records you wanted and they your policies grotesque mismanagement inflation peaked around three thousand and eight two hundred thirty one million percent gretchen nations thank you very much to all that record but why because you the west undermined our economy its the worse off for well not you know not your body not your staggering in terms of course made in capital wed love to do this well i give you that but lets not lets not completely dismiss the role of the sanctions played because the whole point was to bring down the suburban economy and but that is a problem government and its how it worked to some extent but the only thing that didnt happen is the government also broke down. No relation now is running at more than fourteen percent in just two output is less than ten percent of g. D. P. Compared to twenty five percent in one thousand nine ten nobodys under it in the world the world before the new president its a lot of work the task which he has to embark on right now does way say they have to hit the ground running and the first top Government Official to make this admission when he was Vice President he went to china and he made admissions of them but was twenty years behind in development and when somebody of that stature and that level makes that admission its a very Important Mission and because of that its not underwriting the trust before him there are plenty of signs that your public wants justice and these last few days plenty of zimbabweans have been speaking out because they feel theyre able to say they have to no more awful Small Business owner in harare he reacted pretty badly to the news that mugabe and his family of already secured immunity from prosecution he said why do people think that once a crook is out its now ok for them to keep their empire why even bother overthrowing them if were not going to reclaim money and assets could xyrem bad made working one of the wealthy suburbs she said let them live peacefully in zimbabwe but they must find out how much they have if its a lot maybe take half forward as we told her one of your Party Officials mugabe should be prosecuted and sent to jail for a long time he said if i meet him one day ill give him a blow in the street he squandered my life. You really think people are going to accept this is the issue isnt it is up to the people but i can tell you this that our constitution does not grant immunity post incumbents so president mugabe was immune to prosecution when he was in office now how the new government will process this whole thing or has it this immunity or Something Else because. Its only binding us for is their own good will and the gentleman the gentleman ness is concerned hes already been told that he can keep his assets he and his family and get at least ten million george to round mugabes principal told the Times Newspaper last week that the expresident had been assured his assets were secured and which assets of us ok they own the largest land owners in the country they are not actually to private schools they control the running of an orphanage they own a twenty five bedroom house in harare known as the blue roof along with a Second Property in the same city and the three story home in the country they have a two point four million house in the center and suburb of johannesburg and apartment in hong kong and a room and also to have property and in malaysia and singapore not bad actually not half of lebanon is right and there is all that not bad but and no consultation on this shoddy little deal that allows him not actually want a referendum be beyond the law what precedent do you want to see ocracy did you did did did you really want a referendum on that or this thing was negotiated and its about been celebrated they didnt care they didnt mind what it was they wanted wanted or less i think you dont have a democracy or talk of new democracy will think when no one is be yours also so do you think democracy is a blood test to miss and in the end the vindictiveness as well as a little bush in its not if i took over yes what office of the us but not here not the type of democracy where you would think well lets go back and read and rock to the temperatures and lets not have any justice i dont know what a definition of justice to what a differential justice brought to account. From massive fraud and from crimes. And war and people are being brought to account who well who use them yeah but you raised the finance minister mcabee reza finance minister a few minutes ago what about the man who run the show well the man the man who ran the show unfortunately well fortunately for him but zimbabwe needed one and we in india this was the best solution other than our circumstances to him we remember with any surety that you know that the n. P. C. And if you have a referendum if you have a referendum on this i would tell you ninety percent of zimbabweans would endorse this deal the opposition. Sources consider unconstitutional yes well they have quite a few things about which is around the shelter if they can challenge it isnt it thats the whole essence of having a Constitutional Court that would line judges private judges who can we can overturn it if its unconstitutional lets go thats the whole point thats the whole point of having institutions that are independent and what you dish out is independent grace mugabi she gets seventy five thousand dollars a year for life when we have is that yeah you think thats fair everything you think you can have a pension is wrong think she paid tax on and you. Do you have a problem with people getting pension i didnt set that i wasnt dollars in the country our point as the almighty in our in telling team. You are in new orleans respect your constitution because our constitution says those things should happen when when the president is of his or in a Vice President s office if theyve served him at his one time so theres no answer shame to these shoddy Little Details how do you have a diversion from a question you know i dont im not ashamed of my cause you said hold it in there and thats what the off of the even the president took to uphold the constitution so were not a shift of focus today is one of the best in the world and will be rated very highly. If the elections take place next year as they are should you to do so your party can hardly campaign on its record killing thirty seven years of corruption thirty seven years of blood on its hands and now this deal this immunity deal presumably to buy mr mugabe silence because he has capabilities that when you take a lot of people where are you going to be and when a very interesting feeling should anyone vote for you even when you have won a very interesting future look at what your fluted have told you that we have what more than sixty percent outreach and coverage in electricity ive told you Everything Else that we have done ive told you about our Literacy Rate ill tell you about that was because weve built weve got a lot to campaign for i was told we were resettled people weve got a lot to come in with but not human rights no human rights oh yeah we won that doesnt mean we have a lets not react or may not we have we have a lot to improve on that twenty we have a lot improve and this is a bit you know the m. D. C. Equivalent to you know the vicepresident when the m. D. C. Was charged if you if you weeks ago on both sides or when she was in the m. D. C. Office of some ago when she was in the m. D. C. She was bashed that again by a bit and its unfortunate that weve got a culture where israel is around us which you want to do you advocate and whoever did this violence during this period give us give give us some credit from the thirty for the fourteenth with i mean ive been up to this point where they didnt even sit as over as this theres been over a period of time that man one of you had thirty seven years of credit thanks very much for being uncovered so thank you for having me thank you now but. The be above. The bed. Because. Yeah. And i think one day this moral be considered cruel and unjust war bad. And certainly all citizens of ukraine every man woman and child if she no money from their homeland is the enemy invades. No one wants russia here in the midst and which is. Against the global news that matters. D. W. Made for mines. Theyre black and living in germany. Shes reminded what that means on a daily basis presenter john up like this not being able to blend in and i was. Taking a Holiday Group and being you know different than the way. She travelled across germany to meet other black people and to hear their stories. It seemed that. I grew up in a white family in a white neighborhood it was definitely a challenge. She decided to put me up for adoption. The main thing was to keep your head down and your mouth shut of course of the face like this i could never completely disappear if you see all these stereotypes about africa it gets you. To do something for your country but youre still the black guy with an. Afro germany starting december tenth d. W. This is day that we do is live from berlin a courtroom turns into a crime scene of the United Nations tribunals for the former yugoslavia home of Bosnian Croat general is dead after