The circle and bring together four parties with very different political cultures lets have a quick look at how the talks evolved. The German Parliamentary Association behind the reichstag in berlin for weeks the eyes of germany had been focused on its balcony and reading lips and thoughts has become a kind of national sport. From the initial talks and got the impression there was a willingness to find common ground. If in. At some point everyone had to get down to business starting their own senseless deadlines is not a compromise. I cant shake this is a question that these gentlemen have no real desire to negotiate constructively and successfully if not i should say so. The frustration grew as did the weariness. If i just fall over from exhaustion theres no point in continuing. Is the idea of a three Way Coalition gone with the wind. Youre shaking your head well i want. My initial comment was how germanys proceed from outside and i think whats happening in germany is extremely bad for the European Union because the leader has been waiting for im going to deliver has been the president of france and hes given two major speeches about europe and those speeches about europe have been absolutely linked to the german the fact that im one of those speeches came two days after the storm and election thats around speech it was a very disciplined speech was very important because. Gave me something that the big siemens deal with china a big frankly german joint venture deal but he was saying what we need the german relationship we need to be much tighter and he said come over call and give me your thoughts about your opinion got your government together. Angle america has never given a serious speech about europe and back home was waiting and now you have to wait a bit more his his options are limited if you think reckons options are limited his options are limited for his big ambitious plan for europe. Well i mean i think its true that there is some disappointment on the french side and certainly in brussels and around europe to a degree although i would also say that the expectations of what america would have been able to have done with this three Way Coalition with the liberals and the greens might have been a little bit high elsewhere in europe because parts of merkels own party were never going to agree and are never going to agree to the kind of broad integration plans that mccrone has outlined not to mention the free democrats who are totally against many of if not all of what he has laid out and when we interviewed lintner recently he compared the macro plan to soviet style economics so i mean there there is. Well it might be it might might seem a little bit over the over the top but it doesnt it doesnt show really a deep willingness to compromise with france on these issues i do think that they would have to reach some sort of compromise somewhere and i still think that will that will happen and it is certainly true that the europeans are very worried about this not just because of my call but just to keep sort of the daily business of the e. U. Running without germany there without a government in germany that has real digital busy its going to be very difficult on all kinds of fronts from defense to the euro to the expansion of the e. U. And so forth just to keep things running so i think that is a real issue and maybe that will give president steinmeyer in his discussions with s. P. D. Leader martin short some leverage in playing this european card and saying this isnt just about germany its about europe and taking responsibility for for for the e. U. Here. And i just want to go back just to mention christian or a couple of times and matthew youve indicated that you believe that always in his motives were honorable and pulling the plug on the Coalition Talks we have no reason to believe otherwise there are many others however who asked the question is christiane who has suddenly become a sort. A relatively central figure in german politics is he charismatic or is he a rabble rouser is here is he a modernizer or is he. Another wild fringe populist or. I dont think hes a fringe populist but hes certainly an opportunist and i think what you have to see is that linda took his career and his very young age and all his energy to rebuilding a party from scratch that was kicked out of the one is talking two thousand and thirteen and was basically at the point of vanishing into the delta and thats what i really give him credit for is that he took up the task and he went for it and he did it and excellent job on that and it was a Great Campaign and he got their party back into the bundestag and i can completely understand that he does hes afraid of him if he. Had to crumble again so thats what are what i give him credit for but yet now hes at the point where hes in the center of whats happening and whats important to the world and so he now has to take on a different perspective and he can stay in to sort of the Party Perspective on to what is happening in germany right now that fit and also he really i think hes sincere about this the f. T. P. Was a terrible Junior Coalition partner in Anglo AmericanSecond Coalition it didnt deliver on anything and it became a party of of lobbyists and of especially bush for interest and i think at the back of it in his mind is i dont want to say the voters again and actually germany is desperate need of change absolutely i think we need to move on a little bit now and just have a look at the when we talk about change the big question is what happens next and there are really three options for how this crisis might evolve lets have a look at those free options. First scenario medical forms a minority government together with the greens or the free democrats postwar germany has never had a minority government the downside a minority government would have to build majorities case by case second scenario the grand coalition. But the social democrats chairman says no he prefers the third scenario new elections the downside a long period of uncertainty with no real prospect of the vote turning out any differently which scenario is the most likely. Lets begin with the scenario of a minority government how promising is that for germanys future for europes future were going to want your boat ready i think that europes future not the best option but for a germany it will be an experiment worth trying maybe though im not really in favor it because i think the ability is more important right now but what matthew said about germany sort of falling asleep over the grand coalition it would be really interesting to see a government that really has to work on issues that has to find new majorities on each of the issues it wants to realize so that would really energize the political debate and maybe. Also be a good thing with regard to the fringe parties that weve seen springing up maybe also in part for this sort of or done with politics. However matthew there are those i was reading an academic the other day from Kiel University saying that germans dont favor minority government because he reminds them too much of weimar but also it doesnt promise stability well i doubt most germans living can actually remember weimar at this stage it doesnt have to be as stable as weimar was and if it only lasts for a couple of years that might not be a bad thing especially for a party like the s. P. D. Which would have time to regroup to rebuild itself its in complete disarray right now and its prospects if there were a new election are or are pretty dim to be honest so i think that given the options out there for the s. P. D. In particular which has three bad options going back into a grand coalition a minority government or new elections they might decide a minority government with the social democrats would be a minority. If the social democrats got into bed with the with the conservatives until americans considered youve got a grand coalition but the numbers add up. Right and they have made clear that they dont want to do that again this was the government weve had over the past four years and still havent and a caretaker basis and for various reasons they feel that they were voted out the last time they only got twenty percent they lost a huge portion of their voters and so they dont think that they have the legitimacy to enter another government and there is something to that and another important point there though is that their membership really is against a lot of rank and file people in the s. P. D. Do not want to go into a coalition again although i think many of their m. P. s would welcome the opportunity and many of their form for former ministers and current ministers would like the opportunity to serve again but now i think the grand coalition so debilitating for germany we have to remember i think the figure is im just doing the math in my head but i think the grand coalition the parties that made up the grand coalition that lost out at this last election as you were mentioning they lost fourteen percent together that. You know its very high but where the social democrats will be moved to saying can be no debate no discussion about migration you dont think about course sort of want to take a deep breath and we havent and the social democrats would be decimated in the next election if they were visible enough this past election to be completely destroyed in the next election and so just interesting new elections and. One doesnt know the outcome i reckon by going to elections damaged goods in some ways so i think corruption is a minority government give it a try just politics a selffulfilling prophecy its also its going to just going to disappear all the time are terrible give it a try and might be very very interesting so your vote is for the minority government you know what what about fresh elections on a would do so so that prospect i dont think it would change that much i mean if we look at the service right now if it of course theres going to be some movement and the liberals seem to profit from their step but i think it would still pretty much be around same figures that weve seen in the last election and for a. Coalition of the liberals and the christian democrats to be realizable they would have to gain some six or seven Percentage Points and i dont see that right now so wed have pretty much the same situation with two possibilities the grand coalition or another john mica coalition and then i think it will be much more likely that we see another grand coalition because clinton has been so categorical about what he did and this is what he stands for and i dont think hes going to come up with the first the key player of the moment in all of this is weve mentioned him already is germanys federal president for former foreign minister very familiar face many people hes been hes hes had everybody round to his residence here in berlin both you polus hes given them a smack on the legs and send them back out there and so negotiate make it work you know so that could still happen possibly jamaica. I cant. I cant if you look at the agreed on it was quite radical for the four parties agreed on i mean the tone and the Coalition Talks was actually the Christian Social Union in bavaria theyre facing elections next next year theres a huge power struggle going on inside the very theyre having a special meeting this weekend and they were just so obstructionist you wonder i mean they were they were looking at german politics and political interest and status in the e. U. They were looking at their own provincial interest. Though i mean i think its worth remembering that. The greens are also pretty far apart on a lot of issues and the greens in particular who won a lot of concessions during these talks but the greens were basically in the eightys born out of opposition to the c. D. U. And to the f. T. P. So they were never going to be easy partners and i think that in the end is really. Despite you know the various tactics that might have been at play there i think that really is the basic problem and that hasnt gone away which is why linton has said now that he wouldnt you know entertain going back to that is going to its interesting i mean theres not the greens and the conservatives they seem such an likely bedfellows but they have they do get along in one of the most important states in germany book. And secondly theyre going to say divide it in any case but then on the day conservatives moved extremely to the left in these negotiations over asylum policy the greens moved also in sending back Asylum Seekers to safe countries like well continue to i mean there was movement there but the problem with the greens is that they are so it just. Ok just to reduce or no for another word on first elections and i think so just like you for all of us to map out how long if that is the avenue we go down how long is it going to take before we get there before theres light at the end of the tunnel and we have a new government well this is a big problem because it would take several. It probably wouldnt happen until april maybe late april sometime around easter is what is being discussed now and in the meantime you would continue to have this limbo with this caretaker government and i think the other factor here is that the german electorate doesnt want new elections and i think they would be very angry if as i said they ended up having to go back to the polls in the spring ended up with a very similar result and then you would have to re enter this whole phase of Coalition Building which would take another couple of months so you would have a government probably until next summer at the earliest and this is where this wonderful long german word politique comes into play sack yeah yeah people being deceived disenchanted disgruntled with the process of politics and it might drive people to the far right exactly it might play into the hands on a of the alternative for germany who would hardly spoken about. The discussion well we dont know yet because it seems like aiming at the electorate that the addressing to and which is sort of a nationalist. Electorate and these National Liberal voters is what what hes trying to address the owl and he would certainly do so if there were another kemi he would go for it much more than he already did in the campaign that weve seen in the summer so i dont know maybe it would be the other way around and some of the f. T. P. Voters would go to the f. T. But if that were the case the year ahead of iran is ok so i think really want to go in the stop a skeptic party in government. I know its right and it is an irish to me so i think youll think that many macaw and many others in france are very relieved that we dont have a government that contains the f. T. P. So. Although they have to be certainly doesnt it doesnt see itself as years ago i mean they they and this is one of the things that lenders point out he felt that he was being personally smirched by the greens during the talks because they suggested that he was years getting certainly the history of the party is not that of a euro skeptic party given you know its support for the euro and other things over judy was running out of time and i would just like to talk about im going to call down but not out. Im going to mecca liz is there is a fantastic politician but shes had two major bills now one is the election result of september and now the clubs the Coalition Talks and we can certainly under meccas no longer saleable but for her politics has come back with a book tell us it is no graciousness in politics and matthew its interesting that your quote at the top of the show i was very intrigued by germany will remain stable with or without. Well i think what youre hinting i mean that you enter this phase now if we do move towards a new elections here with this limbo a lot can happen in this in this period of uncertainty and weve seen challenges to her before from within her party and you know who knows what could happen over the next six months there could be various challenges to her she may decide that she doesnt want to run again after all no no nobody nobody really knows certainly if there is a new election and her party does worse than it did this last time which was already pretty bad compared to the two thousand and thirteen election i think she would definitely have to go is the woman sometimes called the leader of the free world the new or the true leader of the free world and she was. Not she wont be challenge from within our party now i think because she has to run again in elections she might lose another couple of Percentage Points it already was the worst result theyve ever had so i dont i dont think people are going to let her do that and let her fail more and then maybe challenge her sometime next year and thats what i think but of course the death