republicans are pouncing on this, the messaging around it is the fact that it is a very complex issue and, so, while republicans are very good with images, the dems need to get better around our messaging because we kind of sent the vice president to the lion's den on this issue. >> it feels to me like we cannot forget how complex this issue is. and sometimes i'm like if a criticism is why didn't you go do this thing instead of that thing, then explain to me how doing a, or this thing, would help. >> yeah. >> women and men aren't assessed through the same lens. that's one thing we have to keep in mind whenever we're talking about the vice president. can women get angry and actually show it? is that something that we are going to have to get used to now that we have a vice president in kamala harris who is a woman? how does she navigate that dynamic? >> it is so tricky. and it's full of land mines.