things up and other people get pulled into it, and then you're looking at real genuine disaster there have been terror-let cascading disasters before. that's the thing that has happened. >> but the thing that pushes back on that on the flip side is almost all of these things are really bad for both the u.s. and china. >> but so are physical wars. often, almost always. >> but most of the time we avoid going to physical war. most of the time the two countries have a strong incentive to avoid a war. it doesn't work perfectly, but it works most of the time. similarly here, the one thing that is holding this together is an all-out trade war can be really bad for both the u.s. and china. china is probably in a worse position than us to manage it economically. the flip side it's not a democracy, so they have more flexibility to put the public through pain. not total flexibility. they still care about public opinion. i think the president's theory is i'm going to push harder and harder and harder wall street. seen news reporting that he basically made this decision alone to do these additional tariffs on $300 billion in goods. it's his theory that if he pushes hard enough, they'll have