the 11th person on that stage should not have been obama, it should have been donald trump. and that's what was missing. >> and you know, adrienne, to the point of obama being popular, barack obama is the last guy to win a huge electoral margin as well as a huge margin of the popular vote. he won 51%, a clear win, 51% in 2012 and 2016 it went below. he won by 10 million votes the first time. he was extremely popular. 94%, 95% popularity with democrats. just as a political matter, should there be a democratic version of the 11th commandment, that you do not speak ill of the former democratic president. you say this is model and we want to build on whatever he did, but you never attack him? >> yeah, joy, i certainly think so. i can't quite figure out what the strategy was with some of these campaigns last night. it should be no surprise that karine and i both agree on this. when you're doing debate prep,