that's a 28-62 issue. >> flip it around, when you look at abortion, abortion being illegal in all cases in roe v. wade overturned, which is what donald trump's position was. he literally said i will appoint in that debate with hillary clinton, that's a 60-40, 65-35 issue itself. he managed to rig a lot of that, right? >> i'll give you another one. when i think this is the unspoken message of the biden campaign, think of the success that obama and biden had. what was one of the best weapons they had to use against republicans? it was the paul ryan budget. it was medicare. it was the fact that romney put ryan on the ticket. it was the fact that romney then reinforced the message by having the 47% tape come out. but that is an example where you can take any poll in 2011, this broadly -- nobody wants to go after medicare. >> and it will even the issue. that is always my response. when people say republicans think big. they've been going big on medicare privatization.