today in this newfound quest to get grand jury material for the mueller case. there are notable similarities here as well as some differences and here to help us understand them is a member of the s.w.a.t team that got that watergate road map ultimately unsealed, joined by law fair ben wittis and joyce vance, former u.s. attorney. good to see you both. >> good to see you. >> hey, ari. >> hey, there. so ben, let's start with you, you were responsible for getting the road map unsealed for the public. it didn't take four decades for the judge to turn over the grand jury evidence so walk us through how you see all of this. >> right so as you said in your introduction, there's some substantial similarities. there are also some important differences between this situation and the unsealing of the road map, so the biggest difference is that in the case of the original road map, it was the prosecutor that wanted to turn it over to the congress and to the house judiciary committee and the house judiciary