that said, jeremy bash, back to the discussion in the hearing room. why didn't they try harder to sit down across from the president of the united states? >> and this is one substantive area where i just fundamentally don't see the logic of the way mueller pursued this. and he was asked about it. and basically, mueller's answer was we didn't want to push the president or subpoena him because we were going to run out of time and he could litigate. so what? keep the investigation open. the reason hillary clinton ultimately gave testimony to jim comey in the e-mail case is she wanted that case closed. and i think an investigation hanging over donald trump's head would not have been good for him and i'm very -- i'm sorry that bob mueller essentially waved the white flag. you know, when ken starr interviewed bill clinton in 1998 and got testimony he drew blood from the president. i don't mean that tig fifly.