we have hypothesized this since the day it came out. among the questions for mueller, why wasn't donald trump jr. interviewed. a lot of smart people, including chuck here, have offered the very likely possibility that he took the fifth, whether or not he did it in front of the grand jury or over the phone through his attorney is unclear at this point. but what would it say about the breakdown? seems like junior taking the fifth, mueller not pressing for an interview with donald trump, those sort of speak to the atmospherics, dynamic between the special probe and trump family. >> look, the trump family did not cooperate. they tried to kill this investigation. junior didn't testify because he didn't want to incriminate himself. the same reason donald trump only agreed to limited written answers because that entire family plays dirty pool. what i would say to kind of wrap a lot of this together, my lament, my frustration, is that politicians either follow public opinion, or they rise up and they lead public opinion.