she tried to interview him and talk to him about anita hill and the crime bill and everything else he has had to deal with and get it over with before you have to go into the debate. in other words, soften it up a bit with a soft landing with a somewhat not predatory conversation. instead, he walked in, it was a predatory conversation. she went right after him with everything she had, and he had to explain himself in the toughest possible moment. >> it was like a buzz saw that he should have seen coming. we're talking about biden anticipating these things that had been -- this wasn't an attack out of left field. this was things that had been talked about the week before. i think we saw from biden a moment of realizing that things have changed, and really not -- >> he was in strange territory for him. >> not anticipating this. and let's be clear. biden has a long stellar record on civil rights, but he's got to remember he is talking to a party that doesn't remember him, that many voters didn't see him especially in the democratic base didn't see him in the united states senate, that don't