tension among voters. there are lots of progressive voters who agreed with particular issues like medicare for all or as described here it's not even medicare for all, it's single pair ensuring the government provides healthcare for every single person. but what you see with joe biden 's rise and the fact he's doing so well in the polls is that people are pragmatic about taking on donald trump. i think they're more willing to have candidates no who disagree with them on certain issues. >> were you surprised that biden wasn't brought schnupp that people didn't go after him more? >> i was a little surprised. i thought it was interesting that people went off beto o'rourke. he's in the middling of this and not go after joe biden. but i think one the reasons they might have not done that, i did debate prep strategy a long time ago in a situation like this is because he will have the last word. he's going to be up tonight. and he can always respond to anybody. so i thought it was surprising people didn't go after warren, but i also thought it was maybe higher risk because she's a woman and if you're a man going after the front running woman