week, in some cases even every year. >> yeah, i mean, the other issue here is the sort of moral substantive strategic question about taking out someone's grid which seems to me an extreme escalation that i really hope that no one -- no one is considering. >> well, it's an extreme escalation against a civilian target. >> right. >> this is not going after moscow's nuclear arsenal. this is not going after their command and control structures. the power grid is an inherently cinch structure. >> yeah. >> and that's the problem with cyber warfare. look, in conventional war, you respond with conventional means. in nuclear war doctrine prescribes you respond with nuclear means. in cyber it's much more difficult because attribution is not a given and there is this potential for an istory spiral that you don't see in other realms. >> this is my big concern. ned price, thank you very much. ahead, senator chris murphy on his colleagues' call to bomb iran. the trump administration's very dangerous campaign for war next. the nature of a virus is to change. move. mutate.