sense that he may not penetrate but the people he is standing with, we penetrate. >> right. >> and if we're saying they're acceptable it gives them some kind of image of, well, we can at least hear them. you're dealing with members of my organization or whatever watching "politics nation" so it gives you something where people normalize you because you know them. they penetrate and they're saying this is credible. and a mistake, a lot of progressive white candidates make, karine and i have had this conversation, they try to stand on their own and never get accredit by people that have credibility just standing with them. they start thinking they can speak not only to black people, after two black meetings they think they speak for black people. >> isn't it also true that bad news travels faster? if he knocked himself out, i mean -- >> absolutely. >> i think if he had gone and