with steve mnuchin who also doesn't like tariffs. >> he is basically saying if mexico doesn't do what i want, i am going to punish american citizens by putting a tax on them, which he refers to as a tariff. it is an insane policy and goes against the traditional republican policy for the last 30 or 40 years and reasonable people, including some people as you say who are sitting right there realize it's shooting himself in the foot and american citizens. >> last point to you, bobby. the president possibly shooting himself in the foot or is he? mexico did pick up the phone and they do want to meet. are his threats taking effect and working? >> it all depends on the scale. yes, mexico had some response. is that enough? or is it just window dressing to give the president something positive to say and then back off on the tariffs if he's not going to back off on the tariffs, then that strategy for the mexicans has not worked. the economic point that we made here is that, of course, if they