but someone like biden may not go that route, because he himself received deferments. >> and here's the more interesting question to me. take pete buttigieg, will donald trump know how to come at this guy? >> and gay, and married to his husband, another interesting data point in the things about him. the answer is yes. but he has a lot of work to do before getting on the stage with donald trump. even the city that he's mayor of, south bend, indiana, with a large black population, there weren't a lot of black faces in the audience when he announced his candidacy. so, he has a lot of work to do