>> fair enough. you can imagine the scenario that kamala harris does well and joe biden wins and she's left to the side where in a conventional process you might choose her as your running mate. i don't know if it's a bad idea. i have to think it through. you're kind of leaving a lot of people out. >> what it shows is he feels he needs someone to get him through customs of the new democratic party. >> by the way -- which is fine, he may need that. in the past we've talked about he ran in '88, he ran in 2008, he didn't create much of a buzz. he got 2% despite running a great campaign in 2008. maybe stacey abrams or somebody like that gets him through, as you say, customs and may not be a bad a de. jonathan, what are you hearing? >> certainly that is the growing belief is that biden is going to