and a lot more recently, is there a perhaps wounded or scared inner roger stone? or is there one layer, what you see is what you get? and this is our roger stone? >> brian, i just think that if you could go into a laboratory, pull out a petrie dish and create the most ungagable human being that any person could imagine, what you would come up with is roger jason stone jr. he is a fire hose of words and i would imagine that if this judge moves forward, with what she seems to be indicating be she wants to do, is impose a gag order, she'll have quite a battle trying to enforce that with this particular defendant. >> barbara, one more for you, before i come up to daniel, and that is, what are you telling your client if you're client is roger stone? for that matter, what are you telling your client if your client is the president of the