with julian assange. as i've said, roger told me that they were going to release information about the clinton foundation my initial -- initially, i said to him, well, does he have any new information about benghazi and i would point to the fact that assange didn't release anything related to either one, so at that -- so, did i believe him initially when he told me? i didn't have any reason not to believe him, but when it didn't pan out and roger started making these public statements, i thought that this was just another, you know, dangerous but publicity-type sinking stunt by roger to stay relevant within the campaign and within the public sphere of the campaign. >> all right jill winebanks. >> sam, i would like to ask you because i think people would like to know, the evidence now gathered and presented in this indictment is so strong against roger. >> right. >> and he's still saying i'm not going to plead guilty, i am going to stand firm. when is someone going to get to