michael cohen and the candidate, trump, about a potential trump-moscow project were hypothetical and not based on conversations i had with the president. giuliani took issue with the "new york times" interview in which he quoted the president as saying the trump tower moscow discussions were going on from the day i announced to the day i won. when asked if the times made up that quote, he told the new yorker, i don't know if they made it up. if he had those conversations, they would not be criminal. wow. joining us to sort through all of this if it's possible. cynthia, a former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. good to have both of you with us. let me begin with the "new york times" in which they wrote about giuliani's comments saying when he was hire as the public face of mr. trump's legal team, it