prosecutor and an msnbc legal analyst. and john, it does seem if you stare at the rudy giuliani performances long enough, if you rewind tape and if you try to think it through, you can sometimes find, not only sometimes, what that was all about, like, what the mission was. and it seems to me the more i stared at it, yesterday's mission was perfectly normal. normalized the idea that donald trump was talking to michael cohen and others, possibly, during the presidential campaign, throughout the presidential campaign, about trying to build a trump tower in moscow. >> yes. i think, lawrence, the key element here is that you have to do it in phases because if you listen to rudy for long enough, your brain is reduced to mush. >> true. >> you reconstitute your brain into a functioning organ and then you apply it and make sense of what he's trying to do. i think on first pass, your reaction to it is that the back and forth between buzzfeed and the special counsel's office late last week was an unequivocal win for the