they're not saying this isn't michael cohen's testimony, that michael cohen said trump told him to lie and there's this line in the michael cohen sentencing mmo that we're now realizing says explicitly that he lied to congress at the direction of client one and client one is -- was donald trump. so that part appears to be the case. it's cohen's -- >> contention. >> the issue, as you pointed out rksz t , the thing that got people interested was that there was all this corroboration. and by the time mueller got to cohen, they already knew donald trump instructed him to lie. it wouldn't surprise me what they were about was in fact the trump tower moscow project.