what do you say to people who would be critical of you and say you had no use for michael cohen two years ago. now you want to embrace him. what's the difference? >> well, the difference is you catch a crook with a crook, that's the fate of it, and it's kind of interesting to compare him to john dean. john dean was kind of white shoe and this guy was kind of thug-like. i would hope that we go into some new material when he gets to testify, up to and including what happened with the russians. >> you make a very clear point that i think can get lost on people, which is in criminal cases, criminals end up providing pretty important information. that's true down in -- >> absolutely. >> in brooklyn for "el chapo" right now and it may be true in this case. my point is about cooperation. i'm not comparing the potential defendants, obviously. wouldn't do that. so what do you think michael cohen would bring to the floor there in the congress that's new? >> well, you know, the thing that we don't go into is the 30