stop the investigation by offering pardons, you show the american people the precedent with regard to nex nixon, you show them what the constitution says, then you begin to persuade the majority, the overwhelming majority to support. >> there is a link, i think, to what neera tanneden mentioned, the introduction of sweeping reform legislation, public financing, automatic voter registration, ethics rules. people see this all as a response to the attack on our democracy. again, it's part of building a public case that has a broad consensus -- >> about democratic integrity, about fighting corruption. >> right. that not only makes things go smoother it builds a public argument for a different approach across a bunch of different areas. >> is there a timing question? part of what's strange here, to what michelle was saying, there's a bunch of stuff already out there. put mueller aside. >> only some of it is out there.