remember, it was a little different. you had the tape, you had the june 21st tape, which was the smoking gun. so there was more explicit evidence there. it may be congress has that as a layman i don't know about. it's pretty clear already. you have him, i think, as effectively an unindicted coconspirator. we should point out, as you know, it's not impossible that president trump gets indicted secretly and mueller waits out the term and then they open it. and then they test the guidance on whether you can do that. but i think on the russia question, which to me is the most pernicious, the most destabilizing, we have to know a little bit more. once we know that, then i think the house will have a duty to move seems to me >> jon meacham, thank you very much for joining us. appreciate it. tonight's last word is next. .