whatever trump says, whatever the cost he says, whatever program he wants. there's now actual opportunity costs of these huge tickets. look, he couldn't get the border wall down when he controlled both houses and now he's going to say he wants $5 billion for something we don't need and is going to furlough hundreds of thousands of employees to get it done and those employees include i.c.e. agents, tsa traveling during the holidays, include border control, include his own secret service agents who will be protecting him at mar-a-lago if he goes down and takes a vacation during a shutdown. so the optics of that are terrible. he must be hearing that on the inside as well. >> so michael, the optics of it might be terrible, but the question then becomes is the trump administration willing and possibly capable of facing any backlash if it does come down to a shutdown? >> they're going to face a huge backlash if there's a shutdown. they had an opportunity last year to trade funding for the border wall for protection of the dreamers here in the united