you were talking about this in the green room. i hope we'll have some more insight as the show goes on. >> i think we did all experience the enlightenment together, but now we're into a post-modern textural analysis. we're making legal arguments. we're looking at the evidence we have and try to figure out what it might mean. trump has been very successfully making a political argument and he has been decertifying the press, telling his voters that we are lying. and it's working for him. so i think that when we say, you know, i can't believe these people don't accept the logic that has been laid out, the logic is very compelling, but they're working along a different system. trump has successfully said, don't trust them, trust me. >> during his presidency, we've seen those numbers move. >> it's worked, but i feel like his greatest vulnerability is when he's revealed as weak or as a failure. not just as corrupt and a liar