cult leader, there are aspects of both in those who follow him and those around him. they'll pay dearly for it. the question is, eventually in all cults, the leader himself takes a hit and goes down and i think we're watching that happen in increasingly faster motion. >> i think the point -- it's really true. there's a similarity between a cult and a gang and you know, especially inning this city. i was at a restaurant in manhattan, a nice restaurant, where -- >> cults and gangs? >> not a chuck e. cheese? >> i know you're familiar with food you can eat with your fingers. this is where you use utensils. and the guy said jokingly, do you want the michael cohen table? that was the table he used to eat at for years and years until the raid. and he's not been back since then. and at that moment i had this image of "goodfellas."