i think that's why this is mentioned so carefully in the documents we see today. >> jeremy bash, if we fast forward and look at this a certain way and someone comes up to you and says wait a minute, all of this was about hotels and money and hotel rooms that had the trump brand name on them? will you be confident saying yes it appears that was the motivation? >> no, i'd put it differently. i think this was about leverage. it was about financial leverage over donald trump to make him indebted to the russian federation in the way they lent him money and did business deals with him so when he came into office he would owe them big time their interference in a campaign set up a situation in which they were able to demand that the income trump administration do certain things with them and they did exactly what they asked to be done. they helped avert sanctions on russia. they began to denigrate nato and posture the most pro-russian