and so that's interesting. they also say on a couple of occasions that he said something, and then when he was confronted with the fact he changed it. we can't ignore he is at the same time sending information back to the trump team as to what he's being questioned about in this investigation. so you have him lying, and you have obstruction and cooperation with the west wing's team representing trump. that's significant. >> that's such a significant point you raise because there's been a lot of this that's boiled down to black and white where people wrongfully think, well, do you go after a sitting present for obstruction or not if that's the only thing and where does that go? but, in fact, as you eludegh bo into the record and into court, the two keep people, the campaign chair and the long-time personal lawyer, both actively came in and lied to him. one of them got blown up over