think it's an open question, what does that actually mean for mueller's investigation? does that have a real-world consequence for mueller's investigation? and could this breakdown in the plea be one of those consequences? >> and so i do -- i appreciate that devlin gives rudy this sort of curve that he may not be the best narrator, but he is, again, the person the president chose to represent him in this matter. where nothing short of his presidency is on the line. so we're going to, for the purposes of this conversation, take rudy at his word and he said this. "all during the investigation, we have an open communication with them. defense lawyers talk to each other all the time. where as long as clients authorize it, therefore, we have a better idea of what's going to happen. that's very common." so if you take that analysis that defense lawyers talk to each other all the time, he is essentially acting as trump's criminal defense lawyer, manafort's lawyer is acting as manafort's criminal defense lawyer, if all of that contact simply has to bear out a