they weren't fed back to the top of the campaign that would be good for those individuals. >> well, and the only way to get there is to get a case against roger stone. >> pivotal. >> he's pivotal, and he's telling everybody he thinks he's going to get indicted, he's going to get framed. >> you reserve the right to tell the anchor he's wrong, but maybe he's more than a little birdie. >> he's pretty good size fish. >> fish, not birdie. >> i like the fish. >> the controversy of roger stone, this guy has been a very high-profile operative for many years. >> so that's going on one track. on the other track, you have new reporting about michael cohen. this is from our colleagues at cnbc. they say he's heading back down to washington, talking to mueller again. we know he already reached this agreement. we know he talked to mueller previously. what does that tell you as all these things seem to be happening now post-election? >> mueller, i've known him a long time. he's like the robocop of