and how much do they -- what kind of knowledge do they possess about what mueller has? >> very, very, very little. they have been involved in document production, so they know, you know, what documents out of the white house were provided to mueller, what white house e-mails, for example, white house memos, things like that. they have some visibility into what the testimony has been. that is what white house officials who have been called as witnesses have told mueller because they've debriefed with ty cobb who was the lawyer at the time and others on the team. but beyond that, they really have no convict. they don't know, for example, what michael flynn is providing as a cooperating witness with mueller. they don't know what other information mueller may have subpoenaed from outside the current white house staff, and the president has very little information about -- about what mueller has his hands on. for example, he was said to be surprised that don mcgahn, the white house counsel -- >> i was just going to mention that. >> had 30 hours and had such lengthy discussions with mueller. the president doesn't know everything that mcgahn told