russians and ukranians. the evidence that's going to come out here will be ugly and it's going to point badly at the president and who he surrounds himself with. i think manafort gave a shot to not let this trial happen. i think mueller heard what he had to say and he said, it's not good enough. we're having a trial. >> what do you think of that, cynthia? >> that's possible. another possibility is they piddled around and danced around to have some plea negotiation to try to give trump a sense of urgency that he needed to get the pardon done quickly. that's also possible. it's also possible, pre-negotiations happen all the time up to trial and it could be just that. we won't know right away. >> thank you, all. next big primary night before the midterms. steve kornacki is at the big board with the latest numbers, and later the president steps on