investigations all looking at this stuff now, is the kind of implicit assumption by everyone including the president of the united states when he talks about people flipping, is that of course there are chargeable crimes that exist in the record of the president and his organization. i don't even think that's really a thing that anyone too strenuously attempts to dispute, whether to be rudy giuliani or the president's defenders on trump tv. the assumption is just do they find them and do they have the kind of political wherewithal to go after them? >> this is where i think professor alan dershowitz, one of my former professors, and i try not to be mean to him on television. but like this is where he's out to lunch. all right? because dershowitz is one of these guys who has taken intent, who has taken criminal intent completely out of the situation. yes, campaign finance laws are complicated. yes, people often violate them accidentally. yes, tax laws are complicated. yes, people violate them sometimes accidentally. if trump meant to do it, if trump did this on purpose to influence an election, that is criminal intent. that is part of the question here. >> and listen to that tape. and those aren't people bumbling their way backwards into not filing forms. these are people engaged in a sophisticated scheme to cover something up using a variety of channels of money intentionally with the intent to deceive.