complete fiction. yesterday, rudy guilliani addressed what mcgahn might have said. >> we have a good sense obviously of what mr. mcgahn testified to. i can figure it out from -- >> how do you say that, good sense? have you debriefed him? >> no, no, but mr. dowd has a fwd sen good sense of it. >> two people close to the president tell "the new york times" mcgahn's lawyer only a limited accounting of what the white house counsel has told special counsel investigators. joining me onset, dan any is a -- savalis. let's talk about the revelation that don mcgahn has been cooperating with the mueller investigation, to the sense at least he has been interviewed by them. what does it tell us and how does it fit into trump's legal strategy? >> there's no revelation that don mcgahn is talking to special counsel mueller. he is white house counsel, not