perch as manafort's right-hand man but he's there through the rest of the campaign. the convention is mentioned. he was a role on the inaugural committee. through president trump he was deeply involved in the day-to-day business of the white house, spotted on those 16 or 18 acres. really, as you said, up until the day he was indicted. this is another reminder of how deep the tentacles of mueller's probe potentially go and how much we don't know. and so while there's not a ton of concern at least yet in the west wing of manafort flipping, there is more concern about, a, gates has already flipped and, b, what he may know. >> do you have any sense, mike schmidt, there is any growing anxiety about all these fronts they're managing now since the manafort trial? the ruling yesterday there is a value gates has to the larger investigation. we haven't heard much from cohen this week but that's obviously ongoing and unfolding. is the president there sort of stewing? is that why we see jay and rudy?