the campaign, that they're also asking him lots and lots of questions about contacts with russia and the roles not just of the president but other people. this is a guy who was around the campaign for months and months. he traveled with the president. he was there for conversations. he may have listen in the on phone calls. so you're exactly right. the government could convict him without gates. gates put some meat on the bone but he will be important in lots of other ways. >> i found this interesting, subjecting him to revealing what he got the deal for. having to say in court that he committed crimes. it seemed obvious that he is a part of this.