panel is back, susan, michael, howard. okay, you devisguys, other than quick little mastnafort shoutou you didn't get a chance to weigh in. this is a a fast-moving trial, feels like this is -- i feel like we're watching a pre-season football game and we're sort of getting a taste of what's to come. >> this is not a trial that's about obstruction of justice, not about the russia interference allegations but it sets the stage for what's going to follow. if robert mueller in his first trial gets an easy win against donald trump's former campaign chairman that makes it harder and harder to call his inquiry a witch hunt. >> people forget here that -- some people thought the charges were what was going to squeeze manafort. it's the conviction that mueller wants to do, it seems like, to squeeze manafort. >> that's right. that's what susan is saying. and i agree with that. which is why i don't think it's a pre-season game. it's more like the regular --