he clearly basically thinks the president is an idiot when it comes to this stuff specifically and he's going to run his chaim befr how he runs his chamber. >> and that only goes so far. but i think for the most part mcconnell has been -- he's been death on shutdowns for a long, long time. and i would argue look -- and i'm not in favor of the wall, but i would say, look, the last two shutdowns we had were in 2009 and 2013. the 2010 mid-terms and the 2014 mid-terms didn't turn out so terrible for the gop. i think he's more scared of a shutdown than is actually merited. now, that having been said, i do think that for the most part the senate is going to ultimately follow what mcconnell wants to do, at least those who are not up for re-election or have primaries coming up. >> timing here is important. i think a shutdown right before the mid-terms which we haven't had in a while -- a small one last year which lasted about a weekend. is very different. but i'm with you in the sense of bring it to a head. have a referendum on what the fight's about that voters know. jess mcintosh and leon wolfe,