the president and mike cohen talking about hush money for mcdueling. there is speculation they put this information out, too. one of things he has over the president is he can place the president sort of in the circle of people who knew about the meeting with russia. >> sure. the way it's been described to me from these people is that that is exactly why they wouldn't have put out yesterday's news. this is something that is a big deal to them. this is something they wanted to deliver to prosecutors potentially down the line. that this is a card in their deck that they were going to play. so there was no reason for them to put this out. it does not serve them and this was not part of their strategy or their plan. >> and they acknowledge that it doesn't serve them. >> absolutely. they said to me this was not something that benefited them at all, which was their justification for saying we were not the ones behind this leak. >> matt apuzzo, regardless of who put it out, it is well documented by you and your colleagues that bob mueller does view this trump tower meeting and statements given to your newspaper and others about that meeting as central to both the obstruction of justice investigation and potentially