why is it so hard to take their children and -- so easy to take their children and so hard to give them back? mimi roca joining us, former district attorney in new york, and julia ainsley, nbc news national security and justice reporter. mimi, i don't know how we can justify this. this is a horror that is continuing. it's an ongoing disaster. and there's no evidence that i have seen that they know where some of these kids and parents -- how to make a match. they have no records. >> andrea, i agree, it seems like incompetence at best and deliberate, real evil at worst. and i think there are people, you know, who have said -- called it things in between. but those are sort of the two extremes. but there's just no excuse for it either way. and remember, the president is