commitment by the north to a full reveal of their weapons and their weapons expertise. we need to have that first step. and that was of course where the negotiations ten years ago that i was a part of, that's where it broke down. because they gave a very bad declaration. and we said this is not serious. so that would be the first sign of seriousness on their part. >> and wendy, they have to agree to let inspectors in. they've never done that fully. >> they have not done -- right, they have not done that. as victor says, it's that word, "verification," that has stymied many of the negotiations over the years. indeed, not only do we need that declaration in great detail, but then we need a way to affirm that that is true, which means letting people in and letting them see what is going on and what is happening in north korea, something the north