tax bill, and that would even explode the deficit and the debt much more than in the numbers that came out today. so they are not doing anything except complaining about spending, because that's the whole goal here. they're going to use this debt to say, well, we can't spend money on the food stamps that you just mentioned. we're going have to squeeze medicare and social security because we're going to have to be paying for servicing the debt. >> and anyone up there who has had credit card debt, this behaves like credit card debt. it's the most expensive kind of debt you can encounter. as this debt goes up, the interest on the debt goes up dramatically. and, ron, that interest on the debt eats up in the budget every year. no one mentions it, but it is one of the largest piece of the budget, getting bigger and bigger every year. and it's on track to become the largest spending item in the budget, dwarfing all of the discretionary spending in the budget. and what that means is it wipes