travelers. let's dig into this analogy, if we could here. you covered the travel ban and its implementation. what are the similarities as you see them, eugene? >> one of the similarities we saw in the example you just gave is the people on the front lines are dealing with the lion's share of the attacks from activists, from protesters and they're just following orders. orders that are often being reported, as not actually coming from the white house or actually being consistent with what the department of homeland security thinks is even happening. so there's so many chiefs, so many people in the kitchen. so many cooks trying to make very clear directions and decisions about this issue. but everything is chaotic and people don't understand what they should be doing. and the the end of the day, only a few people are being held accountable on the front lines when it comes to push-back. >> pema, i want to get a sense from you, about what you think the president's think something on this issue. on this saturday, many days after all of this drama began. i'll read from the "new york